Rewire Your Brain for Inner Peace

Shelly: 00:00:01

This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Shelly: 00:00:07

From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.

Shelly: 00:00:14

So gear down, sit back and enjoy.

Kathy: 00:00:23

Welcome.

Kathy: 00:00:24

We're an award winning show d dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.

Kathy: 00:00:32

No topics off limits.

Kathy: 00:00:33

On our show, we power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.

Kathy: 00:00:41

I'm Shelley.

Laura: 00:00:42

And I'm Kathy.

Kathy: 00:00:44

Are you overcome with anxiety and worry?

Kathy: 00:00:47

Does it seem like your world is always full of tension?

Kathy: 00:00:51

Are you depressed a lot?

Kathy: 00:00:52

Many people are feeling this way.

Kathy: 00:00:54

Laura Rhodes Levin is a licensed therapist who specializes in treating anxiety, depression and trauma.

Kathy: 00:01:01

She's the author of the Missing Rewire youe Brain, Reduce Anxiety and Recreate youe Life.

Kathy: 00:01:08

Laura is the founder of the Missing Peace center for Anxiety.

Kathy: 00:01:12

She's a highly respected expert on psychological issues and has been interviewed by many media outlets.

Kathy: 00:01:18

Laura offers psychotherapy, neurofeedback, art therapy and other treatments to calm the nervous system and restore the brain.

Kathy: 00:01:27

She has valuable insights that we wanted to tap into to help our listeners.

Kathy: 00:01:31

We have Laura with us today.

Kathy: 00:01:33

Welcome, Laura.

Kathy: 00:01:35

Thank you so much for being on the show.

Shelly: 00:01:37

Oh, my pleasure, Laura.

Kathy: 00:01:39

We're really looking forward to unpacking what you know to help our listeners who may be suffering.

Kathy: 00:01:44

There's so much anxiety today.

Kathy: 00:01:47

Is that all because the brain's gone haywire?

Kathy: 00:01:49

I know that's not a proper diagnostic term, but many, many people feel.

Laura: 00:01:53

I like haywire.

Kathy: 00:01:54

Haywire.

Kathy: 00:01:55

Yeah, exactly.

Kathy: 00:01:57

But, you know, I think many people feel out of control, especially since the pandemic.

Shelly: 00:02:02

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:02:03

And I think, I think haywire is a great way to put it actually, because our anxiety is supposed to be there.

Shelly: 00:02:10

I, I often tell people it's.

Shelly: 00:02:13

It's not what's wrong with you, it's what's right with you.

Shelly: 00:02:16

Our anxiety is part of our fight flight response, which is essential to our survival.

Shelly: 00:02:23

But in today's haywire world, where it feels like everything's an emergency, everything has to get done right now our bodies are being dumped with adrenaline and cortisol and it's like everything is urgent and our brains are not built to live on a constantly urgent basis.

Shelly: 00:02:47

And we're just learning, and some of us have never learned that it's really important to not live that way, to let your messages go to voicemail.

Shelly: 00:02:57

You don't have to text back right away.

Shelly: 00:02:59

And giving yourself permission to let your.

Kathy: 00:03:03

Brain regulate and relax as fast as our society Moves.

Kathy: 00:03:09

With all the technology and all the devices, everybody's move, move, move.

Kathy: 00:03:14

We're more impatient today than we've ever been.

Kathy: 00:03:16

So I'm not sure we know how to do that anymore.

Kathy: 00:03:18

I think it's a skill we're losing.

Laura: 00:03:20

Isn't that the truth?

Shelly: 00:03:23

It's true.

Shelly: 00:03:24

And today's modern society, our bodies and our brains are suffering because all of our creature comforts, we're not climbing the steeps for lavender anymore and hunting mammoth.

Shelly: 00:03:40

So our bodies are not getting what it needs naturally, what they need naturally to stay healthy.

Shelly: 00:03:48

And so we have to invent all this stuff to keep our bodies moving.

Shelly: 00:03:52

And the opposite is true for our brains.

Shelly: 00:03:55

We used to just gather the lavender and then the sun went down and we looked at the stars and maybe beat a drum.

Shelly: 00:04:03

So our brains and bodies are in very uncaught up states of being with the life we've created.

Kathy: 00:04:13

You know, it's interesting, I think I read somewhere that when electricity started becoming very commonplace, people weren't going to bed when they're supposed to, and it was creating more tension and anxiety.

Kathy: 00:04:26

I'm not sure they use the word anxiety, but today technology is constant.

Kathy: 00:04:32

People go to bed with their cell phones, their smartphones, they're constantly being overstimulated.

Shelly: 00:04:40

Yeah, yeah.

Shelly: 00:04:42

And from what I understand, in addition to that, the industrial age, the idea that we need to sleep so that we can work nine to five is also not natural.

Shelly: 00:04:56

We get very upset when we don't sleep through the night.

Shelly: 00:04:59

But it used to be like you said, we went to bed, the sun went down and you woke up a few hours later.

Shelly: 00:05:08

Maybe you had relations with your partner and then you both went back to sleep and you woke up again at 5 or 6.

Shelly: 00:05:15

And that's our just natural rhythm.

Kathy: 00:05:18

Yeah.

Kathy: 00:05:19

So we're not following our circadian rhythms.

Kathy: 00:05:21

Can that lead to anxiety?

Shelly: 00:05:23

Oh, for sure.

Shelly: 00:05:25

It just leads to dysregulation.

Shelly: 00:05:28

I'm sure.

Shelly: 00:05:29

I think, and forgive me if I'm wrong, Shelly, but I think you said Kathy lives in Alaska.

Kathy: 00:05:37

No, Kathy.

Laura: 00:05:38

I work up in Northern Canada.

Shelly: 00:05:39

Northern Canada.

Shelly: 00:05:40

Okay.

Shelly: 00:05:41

I don't know why my brain pictured Alaska, but you know, seasonal affective disorder, when we're deprived from what we're normally exposed to, our.

Shelly: 00:05:52

Our bodies and our brains don't feel comfortable.

Laura: 00:05:57

Yeah.

Laura: 00:05:57

Like I work in the winter, I'm so far north that when I'm on night shifts, I don't see the daylight for two weeks.

Laura: 00:06:04

I come in, I go, I leave for work at 5:30 at night, and it's Pitch black.

Laura: 00:06:08

I get back in at seven in the morning and it's still pitch black.

Shelly: 00:06:12

So.

Laura: 00:06:12

Yeah, it's rough and we're kind of in, in.

Laura: 00:06:15

Our rooms are very small.

Laura: 00:06:16

They're cute.

Laura: 00:06:17

It's like a little cubicle.

Laura: 00:06:19

So it's.

Laura: 00:06:20

Yeah.

Laura: 00:06:20

A lot of people have that, like you say, seasonal affective disorder.

Laura: 00:06:24

So people will bring in one of those lamp lights to try and give them like sun rays and stuff.

Laura: 00:06:32

So.

Laura: 00:06:32

And it affects a lot of people up here, like the depression and more anxiety and just, you know, they're really antsy and edgy and nothing, you know, nothing is working.

Laura: 00:06:42

So that, that sunlight is, is a big thing.

Laura: 00:06:45

And not to mention night shift, your, your, your circadian rhythm is completely out of whack.

Laura: 00:06:50

And I find like I'm, I'm 55, and the older I get, the harder it is.

Laura: 00:06:55

Like I, I feel like I got run over by a train right now and I'm only a week in.

Shelly: 00:06:59

Right.

Shelly: 00:07:00

Our recovery is different as we get older.

Kathy: 00:07:02

Yeah.

Kathy: 00:07:03

So we're doing a lot of this to ourselves.

Shelly: 00:07:06

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:07:06

And, and, and society.

Shelly: 00:07:09

You know what I mean?

Shelly: 00:07:10

We get into habits of, you know, a text message.

Shelly: 00:07:14

I don't know when it became like a thing.

Shelly: 00:07:18

It used to be just a way to send a message so someone could see it.

Shelly: 00:07:22

And now it's like if you don't respond to a text message right away, people are like, is he mad?

Shelly: 00:07:27

You know, why, why haven't they called?

Shelly: 00:07:30

And it's, it's just not that.

Shelly: 00:07:34

And I don't think I feel like words like mindfulness or self care are used a lot, but very misunderstood and underutilized.

Shelly: 00:07:46

I don't think we really fully.

Shelly: 00:07:48

Like, if I could change the concept of mindfulness, I wouldn't call it mindfulness.

Shelly: 00:07:54

I'd either call it bodiness or sensefulness, because it is about being in the moment.

Shelly: 00:08:00

But that's, that's not where our mind often is.

Shelly: 00:08:04

It's our five senses that bring us into the moment, that allow us to be present.

Shelly: 00:08:12

And so that's our way out of technology.

Shelly: 00:08:16

I think.

Kathy: 00:08:17

I think it makes total sense.

Shelly: 00:08:19

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:08:19

And then believe it or not, the more you do that stuff, the more grounded you are, the more calm your body is, you actually become much more productive.

Shelly: 00:08:31

It's that, you know, bumper sticker, working smarter, not harder.

Shelly: 00:08:36

And we just train ourselves and we don't know how to fill ourselves up anymore.

Kathy: 00:08:40

Sure.

Laura: 00:08:41

You know, what works for me is daily meditation.

Laura: 00:08:45

About 20 minutes.

Laura: 00:08:48

I've been including that in my, since my recovery days.

Laura: 00:08:52

I have 12 years sober and I find that when I don't do it, I'm scattered.

Laura: 00:08:58

I'm not as calm when that or when problems arise, I get more flighty sort of things.

Laura: 00:09:05

So for me it, it makes a big difference that I include it in a self disciplinary way for my own mental health and for my own well being and I guess for the well being of other people if I'm not responding.

Laura: 00:09:19

Kathy, did you meditate today?

Shelly: 00:09:21

No.

Laura: 00:09:21

Then get back out, get in there and do it.

Kathy: 00:09:24

Sure.

Shelly: 00:09:25

Well, good for you too.

Shelly: 00:09:27

I'll be 18 in October.

Kathy: 00:09:30

Oh bravo.

Shelly: 00:09:32

That's actually, you know, where I started exploring and I think meditation can be confusing for people and they think it's just about banishing your thoughts and it isn't.

Shelly: 00:09:46

It is about grounding yourself and meditation in the non traditional sense, but in the very effective sense can be gardening or cooking or drawing or making a necklace or sports.

Shelly: 00:10:02

There are all ways to just quiet the mind and be present and meditation is such a wonderful way to do that.

Shelly: 00:10:14

Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael: 00:10:22

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

Dean Michael: 00:10:24

I have one question for you.

Dean Michael: 00:10:25

Do you want to stop worrying about the irs?

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So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems.

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Shelly: 00:11:23

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Kathy: 00:11:31

If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.

Kathy: 00:11:40

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Kathy: 00:11:46

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Kathy: 00:11:51

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Kathy: 00:12:13

We want to help as many women as possible.

Kathy: 00:12:16

Today's modern society is overstimulated with devices that don't give our brains the chance to disconnect and re regulate.

Kathy: 00:12:24

Our brains and bodies are hopelessly caught up in the chaos of the lives we've created.

Kathy: 00:12:28

We're dysregulated.

Kathy: 00:12:30

Our bodies are being overburdened with adrenaline and cortisol, with things that are always urgent.

Kathy: 00:12:36

This leads to tension, anxiety and worry.

Kathy: 00:12:39

We're in a state of fight flight and we don't know why or how to stop it.

Kathy: 00:12:43

We need to learn how to quiet the mind and be present.

Kathy: 00:12:47

According to Laura Rhodes Levin.

Kathy: 00:12:49

Laura is a licensed therapist who specializes in treating anxiety, depression and trauma.

Kathy: 00:12:55

She's the author of the Missing Rewire your brain, reduce anxiety and recreate your life.

Kathy: 00:13:02

Laura is the founder of the Missing Peace center for Anxiety.

Kathy: 00:13:06

She offers psychotherapy, neurofeedback, art therapy and other treatments to calm the nervous system and restore the brain.

Kathy: 00:13:14

Laura, now your book talks about happiness needs to be within a person's grasp and there is life beyond anxiety.

Kathy: 00:13:23

What exactly does your book explore?

Kathy: 00:13:26

I'm seeing that you say that anxiety is not a set of pre wired uncontrollable buttons.

Kathy: 00:13:31

It's a matter of finding out who installed the buttons right and how to unwire them.

Kathy: 00:13:35

We would love to all know how to do that because I, I suffer from anxiety now and then and I've had to learn to deep breathe, engage that parasympathetic nervous system, that sort of thing, you know.

Shelly: 00:13:49

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:13:49

And the idea in the book is that we don't want to always be responding to the anxiety.

Shelly: 00:13:58

We want to set up our lives so that anxiety only happens when it's supposed to happen.

Shelly: 00:14:08

If someone cuts you off on the freeway, you're supposed to get anxious and swerve and move very quickly.

Shelly: 00:14:15

But I think the book is broken down.

Shelly: 00:14:18

Each chapter is three different sections and they're short chapters.

Shelly: 00:14:24

So the first part is a time in my life when anxiety was ruling me.

Shelly: 00:14:30

It's like a specific story and then a way that I avoid being in that situation now, whether it's set a boundary or making my own choices or negative thinking.

Shelly: 00:14:43

And then the last part is a little exercise that you can do to apply it to your life, which people don't have to do.

Shelly: 00:14:52

But I think when you.

Shelly: 00:14:53

When you put it into context in yourself, it makes a lot more sense.

Shelly: 00:15:00

So, for instance, I think a lot of people.

Shelly: 00:15:02

Anxiety.

Shelly: 00:15:03

Have anxiety because they're in careers that they thought they were supposed to be in.

Shelly: 00:15:09

It's someone else's programming.

Shelly: 00:15:11

And yet you're just not happy.

Shelly: 00:15:15

Your life may look very good on paper, but it's not really what's your true purpose, your true desire?

Shelly: 00:15:22

And so once you start peeling away the layers of what your parents wanted you to do, what your job wants you to do, what society wants you to do.

Shelly: 00:15:33

We talked earlier about cell phones and technology.

Shelly: 00:15:37

How much of that do you really have to do?

Shelly: 00:15:42

And it's way less than you think.

Shelly: 00:15:44

So it's more about creating the life you want so that anxiety happens in a natural, normal way where it's supposed to happen, where we don't have to stop and breathe and collect ourselves.

Shelly: 00:15:59

That's great.

Shelly: 00:16:00

Those are really important tools to have, especially when the anxiety hits for real.

Shelly: 00:16:08

But why live in a constant state of anxiety that just is.

Shelly: 00:16:13

We're not designed for that.

Kathy: 00:16:14

No, we're not.

Shelly: 00:16:15

It's not fun.

Kathy: 00:16:16

No, it's not fun at all.

Kathy: 00:16:17

And I think that children have more anxiety today than they ever had.

Shelly: 00:16:21

Yeah, there's so much demand on children today.

Shelly: 00:16:27

And their brains, they know how to work phones better than most of their parents.

Shelly: 00:16:33

And they've got school.

Shelly: 00:16:35

And it seems like kids are so scheduled.

Shelly: 00:16:39

We came home from school and we did our homework, and then we went outside until the street lights came off and we just played.

Kathy: 00:16:48

Yeah, you just played.

Shelly: 00:16:49

Like, okay, maybe once a week you took piano, but sure.

Shelly: 00:16:53

It's not like.

Shelly: 00:16:55

And the mom's just running around everywhere trying to get kids back and forth.

Shelly: 00:17:00

And kids learn that chaos.

Kathy: 00:17:04

Oh, yeah.

Kathy: 00:17:05

Well, when you think about it, it's super stressful for the mom, who is usually the one who's transporting all the kids.

Kathy: 00:17:11

And most mothers are working outside the house, so they're putting in 40 hours a week minimum.

Kathy: 00:17:15

And then they're having to fit in all of these extracurricular activities.

Kathy: 00:17:19

By the time the weekend comes, there are more activities.

Kathy: 00:17:22

They never have time to take a step back and relax.

Shelly: 00:17:28

Yeah, they don't.

Shelly: 00:17:29

And they feel guilty.

Laura: 00:17:31

I was going to say, unless you're in the bathtub, but half the time you get interrupted in the bath anyway.

Shelly: 00:17:36

Mom.

Shelly: 00:17:37

Mom.

Shelly: 00:17:39

Yeah, yeah.

Shelly: 00:17:42

And, you know, I work with women all the time, you know, and I mean, This, I hope this comes out the way I mean it to come out.

Shelly: 00:17:53

But that is that not everybody even wanted to be a mom.

Shelly: 00:17:58

But we were talked into this is what our purpose is.

Shelly: 00:18:01

And there's just so much.

Shelly: 00:18:04

I know it comes with a whole other thing.

Shelly: 00:18:07

It's a beautiful thing, but the making the meals and the market and everything just non stop.

Shelly: 00:18:15

And women come to my office in their 50s and they're taking this breath like, okay, now I get to do me, but I don't even know who me is.

Shelly: 00:18:28

They don't even know that they don't know who me is.

Shelly: 00:18:31

And so we have a conversation.

Shelly: 00:18:33

What do you love to do?

Shelly: 00:18:35

I love to read, but I never do anymore.

Shelly: 00:18:39

Why don't you read this afternoon?

Shelly: 00:18:40

I'll feel guilty.

Shelly: 00:18:42

I should go to the market.

Shelly: 00:18:43

I should do this, I should do that.

Shelly: 00:18:46

And it's so important to model for your children that they need to take time for them.

Shelly: 00:18:55

They get to do what they want too.

Shelly: 00:18:57

And you model that by doing it yourself and not feeling guilty.

Shelly: 00:19:03

Guilt is so stupid.

Kathy: 00:19:05

Oh, but society's good at guilting.

Kathy: 00:19:08

Just go up on social media, look at Facebook, Instagram, any of it.

Kathy: 00:19:12

The interactions is guilt, guilt, guilt.

Kathy: 00:19:14

Or if you're looking at somebody in their beautiful life, then you feel like, gee, I'm not doing enough.

Shelly: 00:19:19

Yeah, guilt and shame are just joy stealers and they don't really change anything except for your personal vibration.

Kathy: 00:19:29

That's very true.

Kathy: 00:19:30

Now you founded the Missing Piece center for Anxiety.

Kathy: 00:19:33

What exactly do you cover there?

Shelly: 00:19:36

So in a nutshell, I think I'm a good therapist.

Shelly: 00:19:39

I think all my therapists here are good.

Shelly: 00:19:42

But if your dog is stressed out, you're not going to say what triggered you.

Shelly: 00:19:47

Fluffy, you're going to contact.

Shelly: 00:19:51

Right?

Kathy: 00:19:51

I didn't get my bone dag on it.

Shelly: 00:19:53

Right.

Shelly: 00:19:56

We don't know how to keep keep ourselves calm and how to recreate ourselves recreation.

Shelly: 00:20:04

So in the center we have music therapy, where you just.

Shelly: 00:20:10

It's not about being a musician.

Shelly: 00:20:11

It's just about pounding a drum or strumming on something as a way to just get out the day.

Shelly: 00:20:20

Aromatherapy, nutrition, massage.

Shelly: 00:20:27

Neurofeedback is known by some, but not by others.

Shelly: 00:20:31

But neurofeedback is used by NASA to help their astronauts be calm in space.

Shelly: 00:20:37

It's used by a lot of our armed forces in the face of trauma.

Shelly: 00:20:44

So we do neurofeedback here regularly.

Shelly: 00:20:47

We do art therapy or play therapy.

Shelly: 00:20:50

We do movement, we do breath work.

Shelly: 00:20:52

So it's all about learning how to play and how to make yourself feel good.

Shelly: 00:20:59

And then when you're calm and you know how to make yourself feel good, we can talk about the problems and actually be in a headspace for solution instead of panic and unclear thinking.

Kathy: 00:21:15

So you're essentially priming people to get better and what to calm the nervous system.

Kathy: 00:21:22

And now this restores the brain, Is it all of these things together basically create some sort of an equilibrium.

Shelly: 00:21:29

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:21:30

And most of my patients, to be clear, most of my patients come nine to 25 hours a week.

Shelly: 00:21:37

It's called intensive outpatient or partial hospitalization because they are so overwhelmed with life or teens that were forced back into school after Covid with the social skills they left with three years ago.

Shelly: 00:21:55

So now they have all this social anxiety.

Shelly: 00:21:57

They're supposed to be ready to be 17, but they're really 14 or 15.

Shelly: 00:22:03

So we take most insurances, most PPOs, but I make sure that everybody gets everything because it's a unique recipe that in my experience, it just works.

Shelly: 00:22:19

You know, Kathy, I tried drugs and alcohol and pills and all that stuff.

Shelly: 00:22:25

All it did was help me be in the moment, you know, like, I love you, man.

Shelly: 00:22:29

This is great.

Shelly: 00:22:31

But it didn't teach me how to become friends with my brain.

Shelly: 00:22:35

And so that's why I wrote the book.

Shelly: 00:22:39

People are like, you need to franchise.

Shelly: 00:22:41

Open up a place here.

Shelly: 00:22:42

Open up a place here.

Shelly: 00:22:43

And I'm like, I really love my backyard.

Shelly: 00:22:46

I really like doing my stuff, too.

Shelly: 00:22:50

So that's why the book is very specific.

Shelly: 00:22:53

You're going to reduce your anxiety, you're going to rewire your brain, and you are going to recreate your life.

Shelly: 00:23:01

That's.

Shelly: 00:23:02

Well, we should all love our lives.

Shelly: 00:23:05

That's the only thing that can make this world a fabulous place, is if we.

Shelly: 00:23:08

I mean, it already is fabulous.

Shelly: 00:23:11

But if everybody were living the life that made their vibration so high and so happy, this would be so much easier.

Shelly: 00:23:22

And so if you do it for yourself, you're changing a piece in your family that will then hopefully echo like a ripple effect.

Shelly: 00:23:35

Stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up.

Dean Michael: 00:23:42

Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.

Dean Michael: 00:23:44

I have one question for you.

Dean Michael: 00:23:45

Do you want to stop worrying about the irs?

Dean Michael: 00:23:48

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Dean Michael: 00:23:50

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Dean Michael: 00:23:51

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Dean Michael: 00:23:56

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Dean Michael: 00:23:59

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Dean Michael: 00:24:00

-: 4020

Kathy: 00:24:13

Industry Movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry.

Kathy: 00:24:18

Our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more help us promote the best of our industry.

Kathy: 00:24:27

Share your story and what you love about trucking.

Kathy: 00:24:30

Share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media.

Kathy: 00:24:35

Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.

Shelly: 00:24:43

Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Kathy: 00:24:52

Both children and adults are anxious today.

Kathy: 00:24:55

It seems to be a constant in our lives.

Kathy: 00:24:58

We don't always want to respond to our anxiety, but it seems it's always there.

Kathy: 00:25:03

We want to set up our lives so anxiety only happens when it's supposed to, like in times of danger.

Kathy: 00:25:09

Laura Rhodes Levin explains how to find peace today with her book the Missing Piece Rewire your brain, reduce anxiety and recreate your life.

Kathy: 00:25:19

She helps people calm their nervous systems and restore their brains to overcome the self inflicted chaos we all live in that impacts both children and adults as we run from place to place and are always under a deadline with no time to recharge.

Kathy: 00:25:33

Too often it's not until we're in our 50s when we realize we can finally do me.

Kathy: 00:25:39

But by that time we don't even know who me is.

Kathy: 00:25:42

According to Laura, we've been so caught up in all the things we think we should be doing that we don't have any idea of how to do what we really want to do or take time for ourselves.

Kathy: 00:25:52

This sets a bad example for our children.

Kathy: 00:25:55

It's important to model for kids so they can learn that they need to take time for them.

Kathy: 00:26:00

It also stops the anxiety cycle.

Kathy: 00:26:02

As adults, we need to learn how to play again, create a calm and make ourselves feel good.

Kathy: 00:26:09

This behavior sets a good example for our children too.

Kathy: 00:26:13

Laura when you have children, they're going to do what they see.

Kathy: 00:26:17

And if they see a lot of and feel a lot of anxiety and frenzy, that's the way they're going to develop.

Kathy: 00:26:23

And I can't even imagine with all of the overstimulation that children have today, can you imagine in 20, 30 years how frenzied our society's going to be?

Kathy: 00:26:32

I mean, it's just going to escalate, isn't it?

Shelly: 00:26:34

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:26:35

And you know, nature is pretty darn smart.

Shelly: 00:26:38

So I'm seeing a bunch of younger, like real younger people who are anti grid in some ways.

Shelly: 00:26:47

They're, you know, the pendulum will swing.

Shelly: 00:26:51

It always does.

Kathy: 00:26:52

I've heard that, that there's some 20 somethings they want to buy.

Kathy: 00:26:55

What they call dumb phones.

Kathy: 00:26:58

Dumb phones.

Kathy: 00:27:00

You just make phone calls and text.

Kathy: 00:27:02

That's it, I guess.

Shelly: 00:27:03

Do they come with the long cord so you can walk around like, oh.

Kathy: 00:27:07

Wouldn'T that be nice?

Kathy: 00:27:09

So you can wreck your mother's wallpaper when you're trying to stretch it into the other room?

Shelly: 00:27:13

Yeah, right.

Shelly: 00:27:15

Yeah, his wallpaper's back now.

Kathy: 00:27:18

Yeah, yeah.

Kathy: 00:27:20

So they're being actually very in tune with what's natural when you think about it.

Shelly: 00:27:27

You know, that's what I find most people when you hear them say, oh my God, they're looking at a sunset, they're looking at a mountain peak with snow on it, or two birds doing some dance in the sky, where nature is a part of us and it is so connected to our spirituality and our.

Shelly: 00:27:53

Our centeredness and synergy.

Kathy: 00:27:58

Well, I think it engages us when you think about it.

Kathy: 00:28:01

You know, I've gone out to look at the falling stars.

Kathy: 00:28:05

You know, certain times of the year you can see them.

Kathy: 00:28:08

And of course that requires patience because they're not going to just come skating across the sky.

Kathy: 00:28:15

You have to wait.

Kathy: 00:28:16

So that teaches what, a little bit of patience and a calm.

Shelly: 00:28:21

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:28:21

And just laying outside at night looking at the stars and listen, I love air conditioning.

Shelly: 00:28:28

I love my comfy bed.

Shelly: 00:28:30

I'm not, you know, I am a creature of comfort, but that's physical comfort.

Shelly: 00:28:38

I'm talking about spiritual comfort and mental comfort.

Kathy: 00:28:42

So your book, the Missing Peace, which is spelled P E A C E, which is so appropriate because I do think we're missing the peace.

Kathy: 00:28:50

There doesn't seem to be peace in society and we don't have the inner peace that we should have.

Kathy: 00:28:56

I love the fact that your book teaches that happiness is within people's grasp.

Kathy: 00:29:02

And your book will teach people how to touch it, feel it, and nurture their natural desires.

Kathy: 00:29:07

Not what society says we should want.

Shelly: 00:29:11

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:29:11

And reprogramming the messaging that we don't deserve it.

Shelly: 00:29:16

A lot of people, if you ask them, are you deserving of happiness?

Shelly: 00:29:21

They will most often respond, yes, but not inside.

Shelly: 00:29:26

They talk very negatively to themselves.

Shelly: 00:29:28

They're very, very hard on themselves and they feel good about that.

Shelly: 00:29:34

And that's not the secret, in my opinion.

Laura: 00:29:39

I find that.

Laura: 00:29:40

I know when I went to recovery in.

Laura: 00:29:43

I started in: 2009

Shelly: 00:29:52

Sure.

Laura: 00:29:53

The.

Laura: 00:29:53

The biggest part about that, I did an EMDR session.

Laura: 00:29:58

And for those that don't know what that is, it's eye movement desensitization.

Shelly: 00:30:03

Oh, crap.

Laura: 00:30:04

I forget what the R is anyway.

Shelly: 00:30:07

And I don't know the name of it.

Shelly: 00:30:08

Yeah.

Laura: 00:30:08

Anyway, so what it did, it literally almost helped me flip a switch in my thinking and viewing myself from unworthy to worthy.

Laura: 00:30:20

And it took a lot of time.

Laura: 00:30:23

And because, I mean, change doesn't happen overnight, but learning to start thinking in a positive way about myself and accepting the mistakes that I make, and it's okay.

Laura: 00:30:33

And as I progress in my recovery, learning to love myself regardless of my mistakes in the past, and anytime that a negative thought would pop in my head, I would literally have to catch.

Shelly: 00:30:50

It, give it the boot like a.

Laura: 00:30:53

Good kick out of my head, and replace it with something positive.

Laura: 00:30:57

And that simple.

Laura: 00:30:59

Seemingly simple, because it's not an easy.

Laura: 00:31:01

It's easier said than done.

Laura: 00:31:03

It took a lot of practice.

Laura: 00:31:05

But, man, did that pay off.

Laura: 00:31:07

Because now it doesn't matter.

Laura: 00:31:11

Good day, bad day, what other people may say or not.

Laura: 00:31:13

It doesn't affect how I feel about myself.

Laura: 00:31:16

And when I'm having a low day or you're tired or whatever, I just take a minute and breathe and flip that switch in my head and allow myself room for failure and room for error, but still in a loving way.

Shelly: 00:31:32

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:31:33

What you're doing is.

Shelly: 00:31:34

I love it so much.

Shelly: 00:31:36

And what you're doing is, is you're rewiring your brain.

Shelly: 00:31:40

You're training your brain to go in a different direction in your response.

Shelly: 00:31:47

Instead of being hard on yourself.

Shelly: 00:31:49

You go, I'm.

Shelly: 00:31:50

I'm gonna learn.

Shelly: 00:31:51

And maybe this isn't even a mistake.

Shelly: 00:31:53

Maybe I had to go down this road to get to the road that I'm on now.

Laura: 00:31:59

Exactly.

Shelly: 00:32:00

And that really is rewiring your brain.

Shelly: 00:32:04

You've done that.

Kathy: 00:32:06

They've actually proved that, haven't they?

Kathy: 00:32:07

With MRIs and various devices that they can monitor brain waves and what's going on in the brain that the brain really does re establish and what.

Kathy: 00:32:16

Create new synapses and so forth?

Shelly: 00:32:18

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Shelly: 00:32:20

New behavior.

Shelly: 00:32:21

I mean, everybody has already done it.

Shelly: 00:32:23

If you set your alarm for 6am every day and Saturday comes and you can sleep as long as you want, you're still waking up at 6.

Shelly: 00:32:31

Your brain is programmed, and that goes on many different levels.

Kathy: 00:32:37

So we have to change the program inside of us.

Shelly: 00:32:41

Yes.

Shelly: 00:32:42

Beautiful.

Kathy: 00:32:43

Now I'm Seeing too about your book, that people need to understand how fear is underneath their anger.

Kathy: 00:32:49

So the anxiety and the fear people have, is that usually linked to anger?

Shelly: 00:32:55

I think so.

Shelly: 00:32:56

And Kathy, I learned this, you know, doing my four step.

Shelly: 00:33:01

You put down all your resentments and then you look at the fear that drove that behavior.

Shelly: 00:33:08

And then if you just look at it from a purely brain oriented thought, anxiety is a fight flight response.

Shelly: 00:33:20

So you're either going to run or fight.

Shelly: 00:33:26

And those are both fear induced actions.

Shelly: 00:33:30

So when you're going to fight, when you're angry, there's something you're afraid of and then when you figure out what it is you're afraid of, like if we just go back to someone cutting you off on the freeway, one of the rewirings I've done is first of all someone cuts you off so your body genuinely feels a threat to its life.

Shelly: 00:33:52

So it has to respond, it responds quickly.

Shelly: 00:33:55

And we usually get angry about that.

Shelly: 00:33:58

But when you're able to go, okay, I'm angry because that was a response to fear.

Shelly: 00:34:04

And instead of thinking what an, I don't know what we're allowed to say on the show, but what, what a bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.

Shelly: 00:34:12

And then you're angry and upset for like five, six miles because we were afraid.

Shelly: 00:34:19

But now when I get cut off, I do, I, I respond.

Shelly: 00:34:24

And then I think, well, maybe his wife's in labor or maybe his friend's on the way to the hospital.

Shelly: 00:34:31

And then I'm glad they went past me.

Shelly: 00:34:34

Then I'm like, okay, yeah, good for you, congratulations dad.

Shelly: 00:34:39

And then I, then I feel good, that immediate and that's where you have that anxiety that you need and then you know how to put it down.

Kathy: 00:34:48

I usually think, oh, there's another nimrod with a driver's license and.

Shelly: 00:34:56

Nimrod, my.

Laura: 00:34:57

Word of the day, I'm going to use that on the radio tonight.

Laura: 00:35:01

Nimrod.

Shelly: 00:35:04

Yeah, but that doesn't feel good within our bodies.

Shelly: 00:35:08

And you know, there's enough stuff that's real that doesn't feel good in our bodies.

Shelly: 00:35:13

We may as well like, you know, feed our bodies good stuff mentally, physically.

Kathy: 00:35:19

So we shouldn't ruminate on things because people do that.

Kathy: 00:35:23

And I think women are more guilty of it.

Kathy: 00:35:25

They let something bug them and they keep rehearsing and rehearsing and rehearsing something in their brain.

Shelly: 00:35:31

Yeah, yeah.

Shelly: 00:35:33

And again, I try to encourage people, if you're going to ruminate, ruminate on the Solution, not on the problem.

Shelly: 00:35:45

Get into action about what you can do better, but also understanding that the rumination is habit.

Shelly: 00:35:54

You're actually.

Shelly: 00:35:55

When you ruminate, you're actually releasing neurotransmitters and brain activity that is happy to be called upon over and over and over again.

Shelly: 00:36:06

It gives us like a.

Shelly: 00:36:07

A rush in a way.

Shelly: 00:36:09

But when you know, okay, I'm.

Shelly: 00:36:11

I'm just not going there.

Shelly: 00:36:13

And you go back to your senses, turn on some music you really like, read something, watch something on tv.

Shelly: 00:36:21

Engage in an activity that shuts that brain off, the ruminating will stop.

Shelly: 00:36:27

But you can't just stop anything.

Shelly: 00:36:29

You have to redirect your action.

Shelly: 00:36:32

That's how the brains work.

Shelly: 00:36:34

It's like shiny keys to a baby who's crying.

Shelly: 00:36:37

That's the important part about the shiny keys.

Kathy: 00:36:40

Okay.

Kathy: 00:36:40

Okay.

Kathy: 00:36:41

Yeah.

Kathy: 00:36:41

My brain, of course, I've been told that nobody wants to go inside my head because it's a scary place to be.

Kathy: 00:36:48

But when I go to sleep at night, I've got all kinds of stuff rolling around in my head.

Kathy: 00:36:53

I will quite often listen to the radio just to keep from my brain overwhelming me or something.

Shelly: 00:36:59

Yeah, absolutely.

Shelly: 00:37:01

And I have a whole chapter in the book about it's okay to fall asleep to the television.

Shelly: 00:37:07

I don't know what the big deal in that is.

Shelly: 00:37:10

It actually, when you watch tv, your brain shifts into an alpha wave, which is one step closer, closer to delta, which is your sleep wave.

Shelly: 00:37:21

And it literally is hypnotic.

Shelly: 00:37:24

You actually get put into a trance when you're watching tv.

Shelly: 00:37:28

And if you're trying to fall asleep, if you watch something that interests you enough to pay attention but isn't making you think you'll fall asleep or read or.

Shelly: 00:37:40

Radio audible is a great way to.

Kathy: 00:37:43

Fall asleep too, but not necessarily have the smart device, if that's what you're using to listen to these things next to you, because there's what blue light they emit, which keep you up.

Kathy: 00:37:55

Right?

Shelly: 00:37:55

Well, not television.

Shelly: 00:37:57

I don't.

Shelly: 00:37:57

You know, I haven't done the actual experiments in my experience with life as a human being and the humans that I know.

Shelly: 00:38:06

Television can very easily put you to sleep.

Kathy: 00:38:08

Oh, yeah.

Shelly: 00:38:09

But, you know, when you're listening to a book on tape, you're not listening, looking at your phone, you're just listening.

Shelly: 00:38:17

I love that you're listening to a radio because it engages your brain enough to not ruminate and your body's already tired and you, you do naturally fall asleep.

Kathy: 00:38:31

Well, it keeps my mind off my mind, if that makes sense.

Shelly: 00:38:35

Totally you're coming to your senses.

Shelly: 00:38:38

Right.

Shelly: 00:38:39

You're going to your ears.

Shelly: 00:38:40

You're using your sense of sound to escape from the noise.

Kathy: 00:38:46

So do you have some golden nuggets you can share with women on how they can reduce their anxiety, find their happiness?

Kathy: 00:38:53

Obviously, we want them to check out your book, but I wonder if there are a few golden nuggets you could kind of share that they can think about.

Shelly: 00:39:01

Sure.

Shelly: 00:39:03

You know, being.

Shelly: 00:39:04

I don't know if your audience is familiar with the four Agreements.

Shelly: 00:39:09

I don't love reading the book, but I love the.

Shelly: 00:39:12

The four tenements behind it, the agreements themselves.

Shelly: 00:39:15

And the first one is be impeccable with your word.

Shelly: 00:39:18

And that means don't call yourself things that aren't true.

Shelly: 00:39:24

Don't say you'll be happy to do something that you really don't want to do you.

Shelly: 00:39:30

There are certain things we do have to do, but I find that a lot.

Shelly: 00:39:35

As you said, women especially say yes to things because they don't want to be bad guys, and they don't know how to set boundaries, because if they set boundaries, they're bad.

Shelly: 00:39:45

They're inconsiderate.

Shelly: 00:39:47

But setting boundaries does not make you a bad guy.

Shelly: 00:39:50

It makes you a healthy guy.

Shelly: 00:39:52

So only say yes when you want to say yes.

Laura: 00:39:56

I had to learn that in recovery.

Laura: 00:39:58

sitting there in recovery in: 2009

Laura: 00:40:08

And she literally, My counselor made me practice no.

Laura: 00:40:12

And I was dating my.

Shelly: 00:40:14

My.

Shelly: 00:40:15

My.

Laura: 00:40:15

My husband, which I ended up marrying, but she made me practice making a date and then breaking it and practicing no and not giving a reason.

Laura: 00:40:25

And it was the best word I ever learned as I was learning to rebuild myself is setting those boundaries and feeling good about it and not, you know, oh, my God, I shouldn't have done that.

Laura: 00:40:35

And why.

Laura: 00:40:36

What's he gon.

Laura: 00:40:37

All this craziness in our heads, and it's okay to say no and say no.

Laura: 00:40:42

I just can't.

Shelly: 00:40:43

Right.

Laura: 00:40:44

And not explain.

Kathy: 00:40:45

Yep.

Kathy: 00:40:46

No means no sentence.

Shelly: 00:40:48

Right.

Shelly: 00:40:48

No is a complete sentence.

Kathy: 00:40:50

Absolutely.

Shelly: 00:40:51

The other thing women don't do often enough is say yes to help.

Kathy: 00:40:56

Yeah.

Shelly: 00:40:57

You know, I got this.

Shelly: 00:40:59

Oh, it's okay.

Shelly: 00:41:00

And you reminded me, Kathy, of something I haven't thought about in a while.

Shelly: 00:41:04

But when I first got sober, my sponsor made me practice saying yes.

Shelly: 00:41:10

So if someone asked if I wanted water, even if I didn't want water, I had to say yes.

Shelly: 00:41:16

Let people do things for you, it actually makes them feel good and they're entitled to be helpful just as much as you're entitled to get help.

Shelly: 00:41:26

And so the big visual I would give to the women who are listening is be a fountain, which means give, absolutely give.

Shelly: 00:41:40

But in order to give, if you gave from a fountain that had absolutely nothing coming into that reservoir, you would just hear just this gurgle, this like desperate gurgle of an empty fountain.

Shelly: 00:41:56

Trying to give.

Shelly: 00:41:58

And receiving is what allows you to give.

Shelly: 00:42:02

And the, the other is true.

Shelly: 00:42:04

If you only take and you don't give, then you've got a stagnant fountain with like, you know, the mosquitoes and the algae on the top.

Shelly: 00:42:13

And that's what happens when you're selfish.

Shelly: 00:42:17

Selfish and self love are very different.

Shelly: 00:42:21

So finding that beautiful balance of saying, yes, please, I would love your help and yes, I would love to do that, no, I don't want to do that.

Shelly: 00:42:35

So that you're being very conscious of what you're giving your fountain to and making sure that you're taking time to fill it up.

Kathy: 00:42:44

It's self validating, isn't it?

Shelly: 00:42:46

Oh, yeah, it is.

Laura: 00:42:48

Like I'm a big giver.

Laura: 00:42:49

I do a lot of charities and.

Shelly: 00:42:52

I do a lot for other people.

Laura: 00:42:54

And just recently I'm moving to, from LA to Minnesota and I have a lot of really solid friends over there.

Laura: 00:43:02

And my one friend is helping me so much and I'm not used to, because I'm like a machine, right.

Laura: 00:43:09

Superwoman.

Laura: 00:43:10

I'm doing everything.

Laura: 00:43:11

And for her to be there and do all these things, set up my apartment and unpack my boxes while I'm at work, it was really hard, like you were saying, to just accept that help because I immediately said, oh no, no, I'll do it when I get there.

Laura: 00:43:26

And then I'm like, kathy, stop for a minute.

Laura: 00:43:29

She's offering to help.

Shelly: 00:43:30

Accept the help.

Laura: 00:43:31

You are not superwoman.

Laura: 00:43:33

And if she's doing it out of love, well then just let her because she wants to be a part of helping you like you help other people.

Laura: 00:43:41

And so I had to do that.

Laura: 00:43:43

And it's been actually really nice.

Shelly: 00:43:46

Right, right, absolutely.

Shelly: 00:43:49

It's so, and we're, you know, the superwoman thing is just so absurd.

Kathy: 00:43:54

It really is.

Kathy: 00:43:55

Yeah, it is.

Kathy: 00:43:57

We aren't born with capes.

Shelly: 00:44:01

But I do look good in the cape, Shelly, I gotta say.

Kathy: 00:44:04

Oh, I bet you do.

Kathy: 00:44:05

You know, and when I, when I was a little girl, I was convinced that I could probably fly because I'd seen you Know stuff on tv.

Kathy: 00:44:12

And I remember standing on this cement wall that was on our patio, which had quite a drop.

Kathy: 00:44:18

My mother had to grab me because I was going to jump off.

Kathy: 00:44:20

I had my arms out.

Shelly: 00:44:22

Oh, yeah.

Kathy: 00:44:23

I was convinced.

Kathy: 00:44:27

So.

Shelly: 00:44:28

Well, and if you think about it, who really wants to be a superhero?

Shelly: 00:44:33

You know, always battling criminals and bullets are flying and you're going there.

Shelly: 00:44:39

It's a terrible job.

Shelly: 00:44:40

It's just awful.

Kathy: 00:44:42

Sure.

Kathy: 00:44:42

So some of these steps will help people find their inner peace, their happiness.

Kathy: 00:44:49

You've got some terrific insights here that I think a lot of people can really, really grasp just by getting your book, the Missing Piece, Rewire your brain, reduce anxiety, and recreate your life.

Kathy: 00:45:01

Where do people find that book, Laura?

Shelly: 00:45:03

So you can find it on Amazon, but here's the thing.

Shelly: 00:45:07

Even though it's spelled the Missing Piece, P E, A, C, E, for some reason, Amazon loves to correct that and put in the Missing Piece by Shel Silverstein and give you a children's poetry book.

Shelly: 00:45:19

So if you want to buy it on Amazon, you have to look up my name, Laura Rhodes Levin, and then the book will come up.

Kathy: 00:45:30

Okay.

Kathy: 00:45:31

All right.

Shelly: 00:45:32

You can also call your local bookstore, and if they don't have it, ask them to order it, and they'll.

Shelly: 00:45:37

They'll tell you when it comes in.

Kathy: 00:45:39

Wonderful.

Kathy: 00:45:40

And you also have a Missing Piece center for Anxiety.

Kathy: 00:45:43

Can people work with you remotely?

Shelly: 00:45:45

You know, no one legally, because you can't perform across states.

Shelly: 00:45:51

But more than that in person is just.

Shelly: 00:45:55

It's just so different.

Shelly: 00:45:56

If all you have access to is telehealth, by all means do it.

Shelly: 00:46:02

But for the work we do here, this is very important person stuff.

Kathy: 00:46:07

Sure.

Shelly: 00:46:07

We have a lot of people who come from out of state, and they stay someplace local at an extended stay, and in a few months, they.

Shelly: 00:46:16

They go back different people, and that you deserve it.

Kathy: 00:46:20

Yeah.

Kathy: 00:46:21

And a lot of insurances will cover that sort of thing.

Kathy: 00:46:23

So where exactly is your center located?

Shelly: 00:46:25

I'm in Agoura Hills, California, which is really just outside of Los Angeles or the San Fernando Valley.

Kathy: 00:46:33

Okay.

Kathy: 00:46:33

And what is the name of your center again?

Shelly: 00:46:36

The Missing Piece center for Anxiety.

Kathy: 00:46:39

Okay.

Kathy: 00:46:39

So people can look that up and they can reach out to you.

Kathy: 00:46:42

And if they can't and they're not able to actually go to your facility, your book is a wonderful resource.

Shelly: 00:46:49

I really am so excited about people being able to get it.

Shelly: 00:46:54

And I knew that women my age, I'm 57, would resonate with it, but I've been getting feedback that someone gave it to their 19 year old as a present, and they.

Shelly: 00:47:04

So I feel like it has a wider audience even than what I had expected it to.

Shelly: 00:47:11

So if you're listening and you get my book, I really hope it helps and that it gives you more than even what you bought the book for.

Kathy: 00:47:20

You're really hitting with the heartbeat of humanity and what we're dealing with today.

Kathy: 00:47:24

I mean, this is super timely, Laura.

Kathy: 00:47:26

And you know exactly what humans need and maybe how to help us, because technology, AI, all of that, that's not human.

Kathy: 00:47:34

So we got all of that going on too.

Kathy: 00:47:36

It's like, just think about it.

Kathy: 00:47:38

In 10 years, we may have to ask, when you're on the phone, are you human?

Kathy: 00:47:43

Because AI may not be actually a person talking to you.

Shelly: 00:47:46

Right.

Shelly: 00:47:47

I know that a lot.

Shelly: 00:47:48

I'm so sick of pointing out motorcycles and bridges.

Kathy: 00:47:52

Yeah, right.

Kathy: 00:47:53

Very true.

Kathy: 00:47:54

The navigation don't get so close to that bridge.

Kathy: 00:47:57

It's like I have to go under it, you know?

Shelly: 00:47:59

Right.

Shelly: 00:48:00

No, you know, when it says, are you a robot?

Shelly: 00:48:02

Pick out, you know, where do you see bridges in this picture?

Shelly: 00:48:06

Or where do you see.

Shelly: 00:48:08

And you have to click on the squares.

Shelly: 00:48:10

Oh, yeah.

Shelly: 00:48:11

Like, is there a motorcycle here?

Kathy: 00:48:13

Oh, sure.

Kathy: 00:48:14

Yep.

Kathy: 00:48:15

We want to make sure you're a real person.

Kathy: 00:48:17

Yeah, absolutely.

Kathy: 00:48:18

Laura, this has been terrific.

Kathy: 00:48:20

I really appreciate you being on the show.

Shelly: 00:48:22

Oh, thank you.

Shelly: 00:48:24

I'm so glad.

Shelly: 00:48:25

I'm so grateful that you both have me on and that, Kathy, you were here for it.

Laura: 00:48:30

Yes, me too.

Kathy: 00:48:33

Thank you, Laura.

Shelly: 00:48:34

Thank you for the work you do as women, helping women be those warriors but without really entering into combat.

Kathy: 00:48:45

Absolutely.

Kathy: 00:48:46

Women can be empowered without ever using a weapon.

Shelly: 00:48:50

Thank you, Shelley and Kathy.

Kathy: 00:48:52

Thank you, Laura.

Kathy: 00:48:54

We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.

Kathy: 00:48:56

And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media.

Kathy: 00:49:07

And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on our website.

Kathy: 00:49:11

We also have a selection of podcasts just for women.

Kathy: 00:49:14

There are a series of podcasts from different podcasters.

Kathy: 00:49:17

So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com youm'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to.

Kathy: 00:49:27

Podcasts Made for Women, Women Road warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube and others.

Kathy: 00:49:36

So check us out and please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts.

Kathy: 00:49:40

Thanks for listening.

Shelly: 00:49:44

You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.

Shelly: 00:49:50

If you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback, email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.