Kicking Karma's Ass & Winning with Pat Miller
If you’ve ever felt like life kicked you in the teeth and then asked for a tip, you’ll want to hear this. Pat Miller knows that rock bottom isn't the end—it's the launchpad. She says you don’t know how strong you are until strong is your only option. Widowed, broke, written off —she didn’t fold. She faced profound grief, financial adversity, multiple deaths of loved ones, a huge lawsuit, a two-timing boyfriend, and won. She rebuilt a multi-million-dollar construction business, flipped the script on every doubter, and went on to write the book Kicking Karma’s Ass Unbelievable Stories of Strength, Resilience and Perseverance – All Told with a Twist of Humor. She’s the boss behind Blue Diamond Construction, the host of Behind the Blueprint, and living proof that grit and determination beat bad karma every time. Her insight is invaluable. Tune into this episode of Women Road Warriors with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro to gain Pat’s valuable tips to take control of your life and win no matter what life hands you.
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#Resilience #DefeatingBadKarma #BadLuck #Karma #BadKarma
#Winning #KickingKarmasAss #PatMiller #BlueDiamondConstruction #ShelleyJohnson
#ShelleyMJohnson #KathyTuccaro #WomenRoadWarriors
Transcript
This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker A:From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.
Speaker A:So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
Speaker B:Welcome.
Speaker B:We're an award winning show d dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.
Speaker B:No topics off limits.
Speaker B:On our show, we power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.
Speaker B:I'm Shelley.
Speaker C:And I'm Kathy.
Speaker B:We've all been there.
Speaker B:Life throws us a curveball or boulder so big we have to dig a hole in the ground to escape its blow.
Speaker B:Sometimes life gets so tough, people want to give up.
Speaker B:Pat Miller is an example of someone who took life by the short hairs and changed the course.
Speaker B:She maintains you never know how strong you are until being strong is your only option.
Speaker B:People told her it was impossible.
Speaker B:She said, just watch.
Speaker B:She's the author of Kicking Karma's Ass.
Speaker B:Unbelievable stories of strength, resilience and perseverance, all told with a twist of humor.
Speaker B:Pat is the founder and president of Blue Diamond Construction, which specializes in commercial carpentry and metal framing.
Speaker B:She's been in business for over 30 years and thrived in a male dominated construction field, surviving a series of devastating losses with a personal and professional comeback.
Speaker B:She's the host of behind the blueprint web series which shows young people what it's like to work on a construction job site.
Speaker B:We wanted to tap into Pat's powerful insight to inspire our listeners no matter what field they're in, so we invited her on the show.
Speaker B:Welcome, Pat.
Speaker B:Thank you for being with us.
Speaker D:Thank you, Shelley.
Speaker D:It's nice to be here.
Speaker D:Hello, Kathy.
Speaker C:Hi.
Speaker C:Welcome, welcome.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker B:Pat, you're such an incredible woman and you're filled with such resilience.
Speaker B:You entered a male dominated field and you also faced some serious life obstacles and grief.
Speaker B:In just a couple years, you lost your brother, your mother, your dad, your husband of 30 years.
Speaker B:You had financial difficulties with his medical care, a lengthy relationship with a two timing boyfriend named Richard, or shall we call him Dick?
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:And then your best friend was murdered.
Speaker B:I mean, these are some of the things that life threw at you.
Speaker B:I'm amazed.
Speaker B:Could you tell us more?
Speaker B:I mean, we have a whole lot to learn from you.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, I mean, you kind of hit the nail on the head there.
Speaker D:I mean, I had a rough patch in life.
Speaker D:I thought, you know, we all think we have it figured out.
Speaker D:You're gonna, you're gonna be together, married, raise your Kids have a company, run it, and retire.
Speaker D:And then one, my life changed in one day.
Speaker D:My husband went to the job site.
Speaker D:He called me from the Port of John, and he started peeing blood.
Speaker D:And it changed my life in one day.
Speaker D:So he was subsequently diagnosed with bladder cancer.
Speaker D:And I took two years off to be his nurse.
Speaker D:And in between all of that, my brother died unexpectedly, and my mom was sick, and she passed away the following year.
Speaker D:My dad died of a broken heart, and eventually my husband passed away as well.
Speaker D:So I was like, oh, my God, what's going on here?
Speaker D:So it was difficult, very difficult.
Speaker D:But I was adamant to sit down in my life after all that happened and figure out why it happened.
Speaker D:And I truly believe nothing that chaotic and with that much sadness and grief happens for no reason.
Speaker D:And I always say my husband's death allowed me to become the woman I was destined to be.
Speaker D:So I did a life review, and I realized that just about everything in my life.
Speaker D:I had a very tough childhood.
Speaker D:I was raised in extreme poverty on a farm with no air conditioning, seven kids in two small bedrooms.
Speaker D:And I realized that everything in my life happened for a reason.
Speaker D:And that's a very cliche, but it didn't.
Speaker D:And I was left picking up my life.
Speaker D:You know, when you're with somebody, you look over in the bed and you take it for granted that they're always going to be there.
Speaker D:And I was in debt a quarter of a million dollars.
Speaker D:I spent my life savings trying to save my husband's life with all kinds of experimental treatments that are not covered by insurance.
Speaker D:And, you know, he passed away anyway, so I was in a hole, and I had to get up the day after his funeral and go to work.
Speaker D:I was the proud owner of rebuilding my life in a construction company that was dormant for two years.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Wow, that's heavy.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker D:Man, it was tough.
Speaker D:It was really tough.
Speaker D:But like I said, everything happens for a reason.
Speaker D:And, you know, I did a life review, and I realized the things that were so difficult during my childhood allowed me to make decisions and be able to be in the industry I'm in.
Speaker D:You know, it created toughness.
Speaker D:I don't even think my parents knew my name, honestly.
Speaker D:There were so many of us.
Speaker D:So you're just one of seven, and you kind of find your own way and you create your own identity because, you know, years ago, there was just a lot of kids running around.
Speaker D:So, you know, I don't know why things happen, but I believe that they happen for a reason.
Speaker D:And I built the company back.
Speaker D:I worked 80, 100 hours a week.
Speaker D:70, you know, a lot of work.
Speaker D:And I just started reaching out to everybody that knew my husband, and they started giving me invitations to bid.
Speaker D:And I started running the company by myself.
Speaker D:And I built it back probably three times bigger than it was when he was alive.
Speaker D:So I think he's looking down with a smile on his face.
Speaker B:Bravo.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, you know, when life throws you lemons, right?
Speaker D:Gonna make lemonade.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So you have no choice.
Speaker D:You can't.
Speaker D:You can't have a choice.
Speaker D:You know, you don't know how strong you are until being strong is your only option.
Speaker D:I had no option.
Speaker D:I had no.
Speaker D:No money.
Speaker D:And like I said, I was a quarter million dollars in debt.
Speaker D:I was only 52 when I was a widow.
Speaker D:It wasn't in my plans.
Speaker D:But, you know, I.
Speaker D:I refuse to allow your audience, I don't know, the women out there.
Speaker D:I feel that people say, oh, I feel sorry for you.
Speaker D:I.
Speaker D:I believe sorrow is too closely related to pity.
Speaker D:And I don't want to be pitied.
Speaker D:So, you know, I refuse to allow to become a victim.
Speaker D:And I try to take all the negativity in my life and make something positive, you know, and I think I'm doing a pretty good job at that.
Speaker D:I'm helping people, you know, going through some tough times.
Speaker D:If I can be a beacon and help people who are in a dark place.
Speaker D:And it's just not grief.
Speaker D:It's not.
Speaker D:Not death.
Speaker D:It's everything.
Speaker D:You know, everything that happens in your life is a loss, whether it be, you know, when you lose something.
Speaker D:Could be a marriage, right?
Speaker D:Could be a job, could be a house.
Speaker D:You know, it's still a dark, you know, place to be.
Speaker D:And you can't become the victim.
Speaker D:You have to.
Speaker D:You have to get up and face life.
Speaker D:There's no option.
Speaker D:There's no option.
Speaker D:Otherwise it becomes very dark.
Speaker B:And I think that your attitude and your perspective is so empowering.
Speaker B:A lot of people don't think that way.
Speaker B:I mean, they just become overwhelmed.
Speaker B:How do you get over the overwhelm?
Speaker B:I mean, were you.
Speaker B:You had to been terrified with what you were dealing with?
Speaker B:One thing after another.
Speaker B:Eventually, you wonder, what the heck, you know, whose Wheaties did I pee in today?
Speaker B:Who hates me?
Speaker B:Why is life throwing this at me?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And that's why I named my book that.
Speaker D:When I was talking with my publisher when we were writing it, she's like, what do you want to call this book?
Speaker D:And I go, well, you know, some people tell me I've been through so much crap in life that I must have done something bad in my last life, right?
Speaker D:So it's my karma.
Speaker D:So she looks at me and I go, well, if it's my karma, I'm gonna kick karma's ass because I don't deserve it.
Speaker D:So she laughed and she goes, that's the name of your book.
Speaker D:And I was like, okay, but look, it's easy to say, hard to do, right?
Speaker D:I understand that.
Speaker D:Everybody's as strong as me.
Speaker D:I was raised in, well, well oiled chaos.
Speaker D:You know, like I said, we had no money.
Speaker D:You know, like, it wouldn't be out of the norm for my mom to tell me to go find a can of corn in the cupboard for lunch, right?
Speaker D:We didn't have any money.
Speaker D:We were happy if we got corn and not peas or string beans.
Speaker D:That's what we had for lunch.
Speaker D:So it kind of made me draw deep inside my gut and say, I'm the.
Speaker D:I don't want to live like this anymore.
Speaker D:I am determined to.
Speaker D:To have a better life in my adulthood than I did in my childhood.
Speaker D:But it's not all bad.
Speaker D:You know, it was tough.
Speaker D:My dad, you know, had an alcohol problem.
Speaker D:Very violent.
Speaker D:You know, it wasn't easy, but it kind of was the times back then.
Speaker D:I always talk about it and a lot of my friends had at least one parent that drank.
Speaker D:And I don't know, it just was a sign of the times.
Speaker D:But I didn't allow that to.
Speaker D:To knock me down either.
Speaker D:You know, it's like I said, it's easier said than done.
Speaker D:People need to just kind of go deep inside themselves and be honest with yourself, find out what's going on in your life, what can you change, what you're doing wrong, what your faults are.
Speaker D:Because sometimes your faults can turn out to be an advantage, you know, one of my faults, I was.
Speaker D:I was always told, oh, you always got a big mouth.
Speaker D:You always got something to say.
Speaker D:But that helps me with negotiating.
Speaker D:So it could be a fault to some people, but it's a positive attribute when you're in an industry with all men and you're one woman in a room full of 40 men, right?
Speaker D:So.
Speaker C:Oh, I know how that feels.
Speaker C:Working in the mining industry, there's.
Speaker C:There's only six of us out of 110.
Speaker C:So I know you understand.
Speaker D:So, you know, it's tough, you know, but I.
Speaker D:I kind of have my own little thing going on.
Speaker D:Like, I allow myself.
Speaker D:I'm not cold, you Know, I met my husband when I was 16.
Speaker D:I talk to him every day like he's still here, you know, he was a large part of my life.
Speaker D:So, you know, people, oh, she just goes back to work and she's so cold.
Speaker D:No, I have to survive.
Speaker D:You know, I have two sons, and I just allow myself.
Speaker D:I use this, what I call the filing cabinet system.
Speaker D:And I can share this with you guys and the women out there.
Speaker D:And I.
Speaker D:I go through life in emotions because most of it's emotions, right?
Speaker D:So I allow myself to grieve.
Speaker D:And it's like a filing cabinet.
Speaker D:If you have all the drawers open at once, it tips over, right?
Speaker D:So if you open the drawer of grief, if you're sitting at night and you're thinking, because the nights are the long, lonely parts of life, and you get sad and you start crying, and you allow yourself.
Speaker D:If you fight doesn't work, it makes it worse.
Speaker D:You push it down deep, and it kind of like simmers.
Speaker D:So if you allow yourself to grieve, you open that drawer in the filing cabinet of grief, and you allow yourself to grieve.
Speaker D:An hour, two hours max.
Speaker D:But you can't stay there because you got shit to do, right?
Speaker D:So you got to close that draw of grief, and then life goes on, and you have to open up the draw of your career or business, and you deal with that.
Speaker D:And then, of course, you close it.
Speaker D:And it may be a little bit cliche, but it helps me thinking, though, I can't open too many drawers at once, right?
Speaker D:And that I'm still a mom, and then I'm still cooking Thanksgiving dinner and Christmas dinner and, you know, making cookies.
Speaker D:And there's a lot women do besides just be entrepreneurs, right?
Speaker D:So that's kind of how I get through it.
Speaker D:Maybe it's just like I.
Speaker D:I just kind of file things away in my mind, and I allow them to come out, but just not all at once, because it becomes overwhelming.
Speaker B:It really does.
Speaker B:And I think when people are being bombarded and it does seem like life will throw so many things at you, they say, you know, bad things come in threes.
Speaker B:Sometimes it's 10, and it's one thing after another.
Speaker B:You don't know what to do.
Speaker B:You don't know where to turn.
Speaker B:You feel like that little robot that keeps banging into walls and going back and forth and back and forth, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Speaker D:It's tough.
Speaker D:I mean, it could be overwhelming, but you can't look too far ahead.
Speaker D:You do have to have your goals in sight.
Speaker D:But you can gotta take every day.
Speaker D:You gotta take one day at a time.
Speaker D:When you're coming out of something that deep that I came out of.
Speaker D:I had a bad 11 years.
Speaker C:One step at a time, one, one moment at a time.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:It's just otherwise, again, it becomes overwhelming.
Speaker D:And I actually had a bad 11 year cycle.
Speaker D:It was 11 years of tough.
Speaker D:And if you read my book, I had some crazy stuff happen to me, you know, like wrongful deck lawsuits, changing case law in New Jersey.
Speaker D:Just crazy stuff.
Speaker D:I'm like, nobody else goes through this stuff.
Speaker D:But I realized when I became, you know, I became very spiritual when all that happened to me.
Speaker D:I was raised a Catholic.
Speaker D:I talk about that in my book, how I was abused by, you know, the nuns in my Catholic church because I was left handed.
Speaker D:They would beat me until my hands bled.
Speaker D:And I was like, okay, that's not good.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So, you know, I kind of did my own thing with the religion.
Speaker D:I kind of am more of a spiritual person.
Speaker D:So I treat people the way I want to be treated and I'm a positive out, positive back kind of person.
Speaker B:That's a good perspective.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of people don't necessarily have that.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for more of the Women Road warriors coming up.
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Speaker E: -: Speaker A:Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker B:If you're enjoying this informative episode of Women Road Warriors, I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success.
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Speaker B:We want to help as many women as possible.
Speaker B:We've all had those moments when life knocks us flat, when the hits feel more like boulders than curve balls.
Speaker B:Many people give up, but not Pat Miller.
Speaker B:When life pushed hard, she pushed harder.
Speaker B:People told her it couldn't be done.
Speaker B:She said, just watch.
Speaker D:Path.
Speaker B:Pat is the author of Kicking Karma's Ass.
Speaker B:Unbelievable stories of strength, resilience and perseverance, all told with a twist of humor.
Speaker B:A raw and humorous look at resilience through heartbreak, debt, and rebuilding a multi million dollar construction business.
Speaker B:As a widow, she's been reminding us that no matter how bad it gets, you can come back stronger.
Speaker B:Pat, it sounds like your childhood gave you the fuel and the foundation for you to build upon.
Speaker B:It gave you the ability to be resilient and.
Speaker B:And be a survivor.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Because I was surviving in my own house.
Speaker D:My brothers, my father was very, very, very strict.
Speaker D:Like, he was a strict Italian father that drank too much.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So that's a perfect storm.
Speaker D:He would not let the girls.
Speaker D:It was four boys and three girls.
Speaker D:The boys ate first.
Speaker D:We had to sit in the living room and we only got to eat what was left.
Speaker D:So it was Survivor.
Speaker D:I've been a survivor.
Speaker D:I've been an underdog my whole life.
Speaker D:Because when you have seven kids in a family with one roast, right, and they get to eat first, you're a competition for food.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It's underdog.
Speaker D:It's, it's.
Speaker D:I've been an underdog.
Speaker D:I've been like that.
Speaker D:It's been my whole life.
Speaker D:So I've been a survivor.
Speaker D:I figure it out.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You gotta figure out where you are.
Speaker D:And that kind of plays into my business.
Speaker D:I, I pay attention who's in the clique.
Speaker D:I'm not a click person, but I want to know who's in there, who I need to know, how do I get to know them, who I want to do business with.
Speaker D:So you become an observer.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And then there's a fine line between being loud and being heard.
Speaker D:Because if you're too loud, then you get labeled.
Speaker D:So it's a fine tune machine going on over here.
Speaker D:So you got to dance around a lot of egos, you know this, Kathy, and you have to figure it out.
Speaker D:But you're right, a lot of it came from my childhood.
Speaker D:And that's why I say when I did a life review, I realized, yeah, it was not the best but it taught me so much in life on how to survive, how to be the underdog, how to be, you know, against the odds.
Speaker D:You know, you figure it out.
Speaker D:You get your own identity.
Speaker D:You figure out how to find some food.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And hide it.
Speaker D:It's funny, right?
Speaker D:But that's how you are.
Speaker D:You have to be in a house like that.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker D:But I mean, you know, was it all bad?
Speaker D:No.
Speaker D:And as bad as my dad was, he still is the most knowledgeable.
Speaker D:He taught me the most of any person in my entire life.
Speaker D:He had an 8th grade education and he was the smartest man beyond his years.
Speaker D:He taught me so much about life and how to deal with people and how to deal with situations.
Speaker D:So again, double edged sword.
Speaker D:It was a little rough, but I also learned a lot.
Speaker B:Soon you also had to overcome having your brothers eat first.
Speaker B:That had to make you feel like you were second class because you're female.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:And look where I am.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I'm working with men.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker D:So life is funny, isn't it?
Speaker D:But I always say that also prepared me.
Speaker D:It's almost like going to war.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:I was surrounded by testosterone.
Speaker D:I had four brothers.
Speaker D:I have seven nephews, two sons, a husband, my hat.
Speaker D:My whole family is men.
Speaker D:I only have two nieces and they're all grown.
Speaker D:But it kind of gives you the insight of how they kind of are, you know, and you kind of every.
Speaker D:Everybody's different.
Speaker D:All men are different, like all women are different.
Speaker D:So it kind of gives me a leg up with dealing with men and knowing when to walk away and just letting things, you know, you, you pick and choose your battles, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:So that comes from my childhood too.
Speaker C:You know, I love what you say when you said you did, you had to do a life review.
Speaker C:I think that's a critical point in a lot of people's lives that they don't do.
Speaker C:And you know, because I, and I get it, life is fast and hard and you get slammed left, right and center.
Speaker C:It's like a whirlwind or a tornado coming in.
Speaker C:But if you don't take time to take care of your wellness, you're going to be forced to take time to take care of your illness.
Speaker C:And true, I, I took it, I took a two year hiatus, I guess you could say a life review that I had to step away.
Speaker C:I was kind of forced into it, but because I was so busy taking care of everybody else that I burned out.
Speaker C:Until then I, I couldn't function anymore.
Speaker C:But that time off where I actually Solely focused on figuring out who I was at the age of 40 and figuring out what I liked, what I didn't like, and not being, you know, responding to people's opinions and, you know, being that.
Speaker C:That patsy and that doormat.
Speaker C:Well, by gosh, that was the best thing I have ever done for, for myself, was to actually take the time and look and figure it out and like, oh, my God, I don't even like this.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I thought, you know, you spent your whole life doing something and you're doing it.
Speaker C:You don't subconsciously doing it for other people.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:And you did it honestly.
Speaker D:You were honest with yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you have to be.
Speaker C:You have to be.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:You can't.
Speaker D:You can't be honest with yourself.
Speaker D:And I was on a podcast.
Speaker C:No sugarcoating.
Speaker D:No sugarcoating.
Speaker D:I was on a podcast not too long ago, and he said, is there any advice you can give them?
Speaker D:I said, the only thing I can give your audience advice is be honest with yourself.
Speaker D:Because if you're not honest with yourself, you can't move forward, you can't grow.
Speaker D:Yep, you can't.
Speaker D:It's just impossible.
Speaker D:Maybe that's my opinion, but I found that to be very true in my situation.
Speaker D:You know, we all make mistakes in life, so you learn from those mistakes.
Speaker D:I think every day you should get up with a positive attitude and figure out, all right, stuff happens every day.
Speaker D:Right, but what are we learning from each of those things happening every day?
Speaker B:That's hard to do.
Speaker B:And honestly, with people, they don't always, like you said, they need to do a review.
Speaker B:People don't really like to look and say, okay, no, what am I doing wrong?
Speaker B:Is it me?
Speaker B:You know, it's hard to be honest with yourself.
Speaker B:And in order to grow, sometimes you have to do that.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:You can't be.
Speaker D:You can't.
Speaker D:Especially anybody out there who wants to become an entrepreneur.
Speaker D:If you want to be an entrepreneur, you cannot grow a business without being honest with yourself.
Speaker D:You can't.
Speaker D:You know, there's too many fake it to make it.
Speaker D:You have to be genuine.
Speaker D:And I think that's why I'm very successful, because I'm the same person driving my pickup truck as I am flying down the road in my R8.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:I'm the same girl, same hat, same work boots.
Speaker D:You gotta be honest.
Speaker D:You gotta be authentic.
Speaker D:You have to give them a real person.
Speaker D:Especially in my industry, they expect you to be a liar and a fast talker because construction has that reputation.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:And I.
Speaker D:I do the total opposite.
Speaker D:I give them reality.
Speaker D:I give them truth.
Speaker D:And, you know, my clients are very important to me.
Speaker D:I treat them, spend their money like it's my money.
Speaker D:So, you know, and that all comes from.
Speaker D:Look, I don't know why what happened to me happened, right?
Speaker D:But it did.
Speaker D:And I have to grow from it.
Speaker D:And I think I did a good job.
Speaker D:There's still some more growing to do.
Speaker D:But I realized a lot of things in my life, and I, like Kathy did, I really dove deep and I said, you know what?
Speaker D:That was screwed up.
Speaker D:Oh, my God.
Speaker D:That reminds me of when I was 10 years old, right?
Speaker D:And I'm like, holy shit.
Speaker D:And I call it connecting the dots backwards.
Speaker D:Because if you connect the dots backwards in your current life, you're going to realize that everything that you experienced or happened to you or whatever it may be, prepared you for something in your life, whether it already occurred or it's going to occur.
Speaker D:And I truly believe that for everyone out there, not just me.
Speaker B:How did you keep going?
Speaker B:You said you have basically 11 years of obstacles.
Speaker B:That takes some serious endurance.
Speaker B:How did you talk to yourself every day and say, I'm gonna prevail.
Speaker B:I can do this?
Speaker D:Well, you know, I used to say, this is crazy.
Speaker D:I feel like I'm at the edge of the ocean.
Speaker D:I get knocked down by a wave.
Speaker D:I spit the water out.
Speaker D:I go to get up and I get more water in my mouth.
Speaker D:So I was like, eventually, this tide is gonna go out.
Speaker D:You know, I'm talking to myself in my head, and I just tried to say, all right, let me just deal with this.
Speaker D:If I can get rid of this one, then I only have 10 more to get rid of.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:So if you just one step at a time and just deal with what's in front of you.
Speaker D:Obviously, if you have any kind of legal cases going on.
Speaker D:All right, let's deal with that.
Speaker D:Let's get rid of that one.
Speaker D:Okay?
Speaker D:Let's deal with this thing, and we'll get rid of that one.
Speaker D:And eventually they kind of whittle down to the point where it's more manageable to have them all in your mind at once instead of being overwhelmed.
Speaker D:So, I don't know.
Speaker D:It was.
Speaker D:It was tough.
Speaker D:It was.
Speaker D:I had a tough 11 years.
Speaker D:I had three GCs file bankruptcy on me.
Speaker D:I had to go bankrupt.
Speaker D:I lost my vehicles.
Speaker D:I almost lost my house.
Speaker D:I got caught in the middle of a fraudulent wrongful death lawsuit.
Speaker D:My insurance company dropped the representation.
Speaker D:I had to stand in court and represent myself.
Speaker D:And I refused to allow my integrity to be questioned.
Speaker D:I told the truth.
Speaker D:And because I told the truth, I had to represent myself.
Speaker D:$80,000 later, I know that my integrity is still intact and I did the right thing.
Speaker D:At the end of that lawsuit, that attorney looked at my attorney and he said, your client is so stupid.
Speaker D:All she had to do was was tell the courts that she told that guy who killed another man in a car that he picked up the other guy for work.
Speaker D:And he said, you want my client to perjure herself because it's not true.
Speaker D:It was three o' clock in the morning and they were in Atlantic City at the casino.
Speaker D:Why would I tell a lie?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker D:But it was case law now in New Jersey, because fox in charge of the hen house, you only in charge, you're only entitled to representation with liability insurance if they deem it a valid claim.
Speaker D:Well, guess who's in charge of the hen house?
Speaker D:The fox.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:So they go, nope, not a valid claim.
Speaker D:We're not representing you.
Speaker D:We go to court.
Speaker D:And the judge goes, well, that may be true, Mrs.
Speaker D:Miller, but I want to see it go to discovery.
Speaker D:Because that judge wanted to get more information and go to discovery.
Speaker D:I had to represent myself because they were going after my house.
Speaker D:Ugh, My cars.
Speaker D:They were suing me for $20 million.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker C:Oh my God.
Speaker D:Exactly.
Speaker D:And I said I had nothing to do with them being in Atlantic City at 3 o' clock in the morning.
Speaker D:How am I being sued for this?
Speaker D:Look, I understand it was an accident.
Speaker D:Somebody was killed.
Speaker D:It's a terrible tragedy.
Speaker D:But the man who was killed, he was drunk.
Speaker D:He was changing a tire in the fast lane and he was hit from behind and unfortunately he was killed.
Speaker D:And his common law wife got an attorney and sued me because they were trying to go after hired and un owned vehicles, so that falls under liability.
Speaker D:And they were trying to get $20 million.
Speaker D:And I said, I'm sorry, I can't lie.
Speaker D:I cannot go to court and lie.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:I wound up winning.
Speaker D:I won.
Speaker D:And then now my attorney, it was a horrible experience.
Speaker D:My attorney said, you changed the policies in the state of New Jersey, where now insurance company have to represent you whether it's.
Speaker D:It's a valid claim or not.
Speaker D:If it goes to discovery, you're still entitled to representation.
Speaker D:So I hope the things that I am baptized by fire with help other people, right?
Speaker D:That's what I'm here for.
Speaker D:I'm trying to share my wisdom now as I get older and trying to help People that are going through some.
Speaker D:Some tough times help young girls who want to be in construction and help people, you know, by example.
Speaker D:Hopefully that lawsuit, frivolous lawsuit, helps some people who didn't have the money to represent themselves.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:So I don't know.
Speaker D:I don't know why things happen to me, but who knows, maybe so that.
Speaker B:You can impart that knowledge on others.
Speaker B:Because I think right now we're dealing with some really difficult times.
Speaker B:People feel lost, they're angry, they.
Speaker B:They're just overwhelmed.
Speaker B:It seems like everything's coming at us left and right.
Speaker B:And then, of course, you've got technology that makes things sometimes a far more complicated communication.
Speaker B:Even though we could communicate with a device, I think communication has gotten worse and we feel like we're out there in the desert somewhere and there's no one to help us.
Speaker D:You know, I agree, I agree.
Speaker D:Sometimes, again, I always use the phrase double edged sword.
Speaker D:The technology is so.
Speaker D:Is so good, but yet it could be so, so bad.
Speaker D:Like, people depend on it too much.
Speaker D:And, you know, especially in my industry.
Speaker D:Oh, I sent you the email, you know, and it's really important email.
Speaker D:And they forgot to hit send, right?
Speaker D:So it's like, all right, well, I have six guys on site and I never got your email that I have to wait three days, right, for inspections.
Speaker D:So it could be bad.
Speaker D:But I think I said this on a podcast not too long ago.
Speaker D:Everybody needs to stop hating.
Speaker D:It's just everybody is just so wrapped up in what everybody else is doing in their lives and jealousy and hating and, you know, not everybody gets their stuff easy.
Speaker D:You know, people look at me and say, oh, a nice house, nice car, this.
Speaker D:I worked frigging hard, man.
Speaker D:I worked hard for it.
Speaker D:Money doesn't grow in the backyard.
Speaker D:So, you know, they prejudge you based on what you're driving or where you are.
Speaker D:And, you know, I think everybody needs to start communicating like you said, and stop hating and start loving more and just talk to people and learn.
Speaker D:Because I find if you talk to people, you might learn something and that could springboard your career somewhere.
Speaker B:Sure, that makes sense.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for more of women Road warriors coming up.
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Speaker E: -: Speaker A:Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker B:Life doesn't always throw curveballs.
Speaker B:Sometimes it hurls wrecking balls.
Speaker B:When most would fold, Pat Miller fought back.
Speaker B:She stared down grief, debt and doubt and said, watch me.
Speaker B:She says everything happens for a reason.
Speaker B:It's just a matter of finding your inner strength, connecting the dots backwards and taking it one day at a time.
Speaker B:Pat rebuilt a multi million dollar construction business, crushed it in a male dominated industry and turned pain into power.
Speaker B:Her book Kicking Karma's Unbelievable stories of Strength, Resilience and perseverance, all told with a twist of humor, is packed with gritty, hilarious stories of survival and grit.
Speaker B:Pat is the powerhouse behind Blue Diamond Construction and host of behind the Blueprint.
Speaker B:Pat, we were talking in our last segment about people being kinder to each other.
Speaker B:It does seem like that's really lost today.
Speaker B:It does also feel like our society because of technology maybe they've gotten a lot more impatient and they don't give people say when they're first working with them the ramp up time.
Speaker B:It's like you need to click on this right now when in fact, you know, years ago.
Speaker B:It takes a little bit of time.
Speaker B:We don't have the patience and the compassion for others.
Speaker D:No, we don't.
Speaker D:And you know, that's what they call, I tell my kids that, I mean, I'm older now, my kids are in their 30s and they're considered the now generation.
Speaker D:They have zero patience.
Speaker D:They want everything now.
Speaker D:That's what they're called.
Speaker D:And it doesn't work that way.
Speaker D:Some things have to be done organically and it takes time.
Speaker D:You have to do steps.
Speaker D:Things aren't built overnight.
Speaker D:And I'll give you an example.
Speaker D:I'm going to share something with you guys.
Speaker D:So I was building a Coptic Christian church about five years ago and I came out of a it's in a very distribution center.
Speaker D:So a lot of factory workers, truckers.
Speaker D:I came out of the, I think it was Dunkin Donuts.
Speaker D:I came out of Dunkin Donuts.
Speaker D:I parked and or a young man was coming out of Dunkin Donuts.
Speaker D:I was walking towards it and he was a young black man and he had a bag in his hand.
Speaker D:And I said, hey man, how you doing today?
Speaker D:And he goes, I'M doing good.
Speaker D:And he stops and he turns around, he goes, I have to tell you something.
Speaker D:I said, what?
Speaker D:What's going on, man?
Speaker D:He goes, I've been working here three years and nobody has ever asked me, how am I doing?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker D:He goes, I go, and I looked at him and I go, yeah, right.
Speaker D:I said, you probably thought I was a Karen, right?
Speaker D:Because, you know, he was a young black guy and that was when the Karen stuff was going on.
Speaker D:He starts laughing and he goes, it was really nice to talk to you today.
Speaker D:Thank you for asking me how I'm doing.
Speaker D:And actually I'm having a pretty good day.
Speaker D:And he walked away.
Speaker D:And I said to myself, that's pathetic.
Speaker D:This kid has been working in a factory for three years, day in and day out, and nobody has asked him, hey, how you doing today?
Speaker B:We've lost that.
Speaker B:People are so consumed by themselves.
Speaker B:Well, if you look at or, or their phones.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, I was going to say that.
Speaker B:You know, I remember standing in Chicago watching all these people and they, they're looking at their phones and they're walking, they're not even looking up.
Speaker B:It's like, how do they do this and not run into each other or get run over by tr.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker D:I think it's sad.
Speaker D:You know, that was very, that was very profound for me because I thought to myself, I can't believe we live in the world like this.
Speaker D:Like, we pass another human being day in and day out, and we don't even recognize them as a human being, like robots.
Speaker D:And it really struck me and, you know, I saw him after that again and he had a big smile on his face, you know, And I was like, we gotta stop.
Speaker D:We gotta start treating each other better.
Speaker C:Yeah, I got a bit of a story like that when I first started operating the grader.
Speaker C:This thing is massive, right?
Speaker C:It's like, it's so big.
Speaker C:And the guy that I would switch out with all the time, he'd been operating for decades.
Speaker C:And he was just miserable and grouchy and grumpy and, you know, he almost bit your head off.
Speaker C:And every time I.
Speaker C:We'd swap out at the end of our 13 hour shift and I'm like, okay, what, what can I do?
Speaker C:Like, you know, like, this is, this is just awful to live like that.
Speaker C:So me being me, I'm like a burst of sunshine here.
Speaker C:So it was Christmas and when, even when I was nursing, when I was working any, any holiday, I'd always go extra, extra to make people smile.
Speaker C:So this guy, he he would not smile and he's just grouchy as hell.
Speaker D:Could be.
Speaker C:So what I did, it was Christmas day and he was coming in for the day shift or the night shift and just miserable.
Speaker C:So I had taken, you know, those Lindor really nice wrapped chocolates.
Speaker C:They're really big ones.
Speaker C:Yeah, and they're balls with the.
Speaker C:Anyway, I put one on, I put a napkin on the seat and I, and I drew a little sunshine with a happy face.
Speaker C:And I wrote, you know, merry Christmas and I'm sending you some extra special goodness today.
Speaker C:And I put this chocolate on there.
Speaker C:Well, and then he didn't know because we always switch out on the ground.
Speaker C:So I'm, I'm getting in the pickup as he's climbing up on the, on the, on the grater.
Speaker C:So when I come back 13 hours later and he's getting up, well, oh my God, the smile that that man had, he says to me, he actually gave me a hug.
Speaker C:He says, I gotta tell you, he said, I've been doing this for 20 some odd years and never has any, anyone left me a chocolate or a note or something kind.
Speaker C:And he says, I think I thank you.
Speaker C:You made a difference.
Speaker C:So when I got, when I got on, when I got on the, to the grater, he says, he left me a note with, with a vitamin C packet that he had in his bag.
Speaker C:And he said this is all I had, but thank you for this.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:And so to this day he smiles, he says, hey smiley, how's it going?
Speaker C:And we're friends, right?
Speaker D:That's a great story too.
Speaker D:I mean, we need to all stop hating start, you know.
Speaker D:You know, I talk about it a lot.
Speaker C:It's like, you know, we were random acts of kindness.
Speaker D:It's just, well, you know, it's a well oiled machine.
Speaker D:You know, we're taught to hate each other.
Speaker D:You know, we're not supposed.
Speaker D:Blacks aren't supposed to like whites.
Speaker D:Democrats aren't supposed to like Republicans.
Speaker D:Everything is divisive, divisive, divisive.
Speaker D:Stop.
Speaker D:Everybody has children, everybody has families.
Speaker D:We're all just trying to survive here.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:It's a lot easier if we work together.
Speaker B:I totally agree.
Speaker B:And in your book, I think is got the enlightenment that people need and your attitude is fabulous.
Speaker B:I mean, people need to listen to you.
Speaker B:What are some of the highlights in the book?
Speaker B:I mean it reads like a movie.
Speaker B:It's like, wow, this woman has been through hell and back.
Speaker B:She survived.
Speaker B:She's prevailed.
Speaker B:I want to learn more.
Speaker D:Yeah, so.
Speaker D:Well, I Tell the story.
Speaker D:And like I said, I touch a little bit on everything.
Speaker D:I touch a little bit on my childhood.
Speaker D:I go through Catholic school.
Speaker D:And the reason why I shared that, because before I wrote my book, I was extremely personal.
Speaker D:I never even went on social media.
Speaker D:And I had a dream, and my husband, late husband, was in a dream, and he told me to write the book.
Speaker D:So I wrote the book because we always talked about it at the dinner table.
Speaker D:So I talk about my childhood and then I go through.
Speaker D:There's some funny stories, too, about dating again in your 50s.
Speaker D:I mean, that's funny stories.
Speaker D:And then I talk about the medical industry, the insurance industry, things that people go through every single day.
Speaker D:How you trying to save your husband's life.
Speaker D:And you're on the phone trying to get things approved because, well, we can't pay for that drug because it's only for kidney cancer, not bladder cancer.
Speaker D:And then you're going through enough crap then to fight.
Speaker D:You don't have a good fight in you, but you have to, right?
Speaker D:Because otherwise you have zero treatments.
Speaker D:So I talk about a lot of things in the book because I want it to be a little bit balanced on where I came from, how I was molded.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And then some of my experiences.
Speaker D:And then after my husband's death, how I had to go to work.
Speaker D:I tell that story.
Speaker D:That was a highlight.
Speaker D:How I went to.
Speaker D:My husband, taught me how to bid on the hospital bed.
Speaker D:Because he said he was terminal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And he said, you got to get back to work.
Speaker D:So he said, bring the drawings in and I'll teach you how to bid the job.
Speaker D:Because bidding the job was his job.
Speaker D:I did all like, the buying, procurement, the taxes.
Speaker D:Because I have a degree in accounting.
Speaker D:I did all that.
Speaker D:So he told me, if you can bid it, you can build it.
Speaker D:So he was teaching me.
Speaker D:So I got a job before he passed.
Speaker D:He passed away in November.
Speaker D:I had got a big job that he helped me bid in September.
Speaker D:So I had men working there.
Speaker D:And I'll compress the story real quick for you.
Speaker D:And the super that was on site got caught doing inappropriate things with a laptop in his pickup truck.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker D:He was watching films and he was masturbating.
Speaker D:And he got caught.
Speaker D:And the plumber went to go up to his window and he saw it, and it was the talk of the.
Speaker D:You know, he didn't get caught by me, but.
Speaker D:But it was the talk of the job.
Speaker D:And I was the only female.
Speaker D:So I went to the gc.
Speaker D:I knew his boss, and I said, look, if it was any other woman, the cops would be here, okay?
Speaker D:I said, you need to talk to him because what he's doing is not proper for a job site and he needs to keep his private actions at home, right?
Speaker D:Oh, P.S.
Speaker D:he got mad at me, and he was mad because he was the talk of the job, but I don't think he would have.
Speaker D:It's not because of me.
Speaker D:Guys talk, right?
Speaker D:Guys are talking.
Speaker D:So he had a name.
Speaker D:So when my husband was put on hospice, this is how my book started and how I circled back to this man.
Speaker D:He was put on hospice.
Speaker D:This man called me up and I said, what's the problem?
Speaker D:And he says, you need to be on site next Thursday or we're pulling your contract.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker D:Now I'm broke, right?
Speaker D:It's my first job.
Speaker D:My husband's still, you know, on hospice, dying.
Speaker D:And I said, what's the problem?
Speaker D:My men are there, you know, my husband's dying.
Speaker D:And he goes, you're the client.
Speaker D:Doesn't give a.
Speaker D:That your husband's dying of cancer.
Speaker D:This is corporate America and they have to move in in January and you need to be here or we're going to give your contract to somebody else.
Speaker D:So to this day, I always tell the story.
Speaker D:I swear my husband heard that conversation in the room because he was sedated and he died the next day.
Speaker D:He died on Friday.
Speaker D:So I waited for my sister to come up for the funeral.
Speaker D:I waked him on Tuesday.
Speaker D:I buried him on Wednesday.
Speaker D:And remember that gave me until Thursday to come on site or he'd pull my contract.
Speaker D:So I got up the day after my husband's funeral.
Speaker D:I cried my eyes out, swung my legs around the side of the bed, went in the shower and cried some more and said, lord, please give me the strength to get through this day because I was wiped out.
Speaker D:And he did.
Speaker D:I was a little angry, not gonna lie.
Speaker D:I was not pleasant to be around that day because it was the day after my husband's funeral.
Speaker D:And I tell that story how he was an.
Speaker D:But at the end of the book, I go back to him because it's.
Speaker D:If he didn't do that to me, I would have stayed in bed probably a year because I had been through so much with my parents in and out of rehab, my brother and his dialysis and cancer, and I didn't know he was sick.
Speaker D:And my husband in Philadelphia and New York and Cooper, he was all over in the tri state area.
Speaker D:I probably could have stayed in bed for a year, right?
Speaker D:It would have Got real dark real fast.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:So I said that got put in my life for a reason, because he forced me to get out of bed.
Speaker D:Baseline.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So even though you come across people that aren't so nice, that shitty things to you, they're teaching you something, and they're helping you get through something, because, trust me, I hated that guy.
Speaker D:But then at the end, I was like, all right.
Speaker D:And then I found out that the owners never said that.
Speaker D:You know, I became friendly with the owners of the company, and they're like, we would never say that.
Speaker D:We're a family company, but it all happened for a reason.
Speaker B:So is that what we need to remember, Pat?
Speaker B:Everything happens with it for a reason.
Speaker B:Because I think people have a hard time wrapping their heads around this.
Speaker B:You know, they consider themselves good people, and good people can be really thrown around by some of these obstacles.
Speaker B:It's like, why?
Speaker B:You know, you don't know.
Speaker D:Well, you don't know if you're being tested.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:My mom was a very simple.
Speaker D:She was a homemaker.
Speaker D:She had seven kids in 10 years.
Speaker D:Like, she wore that badge proud.
Speaker D:Never got her license, never got a job.
Speaker D:Different kind of homemaker than today because she didn't have running water, right?
Speaker D:Throw away bottles, throw away diapers.
Speaker D:She worked constantly, but she always told me, life is for the living.
Speaker D:If you're not living, you don't have a life.
Speaker D:She lost her sister when she was 42 years old.
Speaker D:So, you know, she taught me a lot.
Speaker D:So she always said, things happen for a reason, and she always told me, and this is kind of deep, always be nice to people in public, to strangers.
Speaker D:You never know if it's the Lord and disguise.
Speaker B:Ooh, that's powerful.
Speaker D:That's very powerful.
Speaker D:Because we need to treat people as though we're being watched, right?
Speaker D:Because she used to teach me, you could be tested.
Speaker D:You know, we all have a higher calling at some point.
Speaker D:Whether it's in this life, in another life, I don't know.
Speaker D:I haven't figured that part out yet.
Speaker D:But life is too complex not to think otherwise, in my opinion.
Speaker D:So, you know, she taught me that.
Speaker D:And I try to live my life like that.
Speaker D:You know, I try to, like, stay in the low.
Speaker D:Asking somebody how their day is, giving a man, a grumpy man, chocolate.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker D:We need to be a little bit nice to the people.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker D:Well, because I.
Speaker D:Years ago, I'm not gonna lie, I was.
Speaker D:I was like that.
Speaker D:I was young.
Speaker D:You know, you think nothing's ever gonna happen, but when you become humbled and you think.
Speaker D:Start thinking about mortality.
Speaker D:When you see so many people close to you die, you realize that you need to be a little bit nicer.
Speaker D:You don't know what people are going through when they go home.
Speaker D:Even guys on the job, that could be crabby to me.
Speaker D:Maybe he's got a sick kid.
Speaker D:There's guys.
Speaker D:I know that kids have cancer.
Speaker D:That's not nice.
Speaker D:Things people are going through.
Speaker D:We don't know what people are going through.
Speaker D:You know, they could have had my life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Give them a break.
Speaker D:They might be crabby.
Speaker D:Maybe be nicer back to them.
Speaker D:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's a great philosophy.
Speaker B:Pat, where do people find your book?
Speaker D:Oh, my book is on Amazon.
Speaker D:Of course it's on Amazon.
Speaker D:You could just Google the name on Amazon or whatever, search bar.
Speaker D:And then it's also at Barnes and Noble.
Speaker D:We haven't been able to get it on audio yet.
Speaker D:It's coming soon.
Speaker D:I just been so busy.
Speaker D:So they can find that and they can find me all over the Internet.
Speaker D:I have a communications firm that keeps everybody updated on what I'm doing.
Speaker D:Thepatmiller 11.
Speaker D:I'm on Instagram, Facebook, and also X.
Speaker D:And I'm on LinkedIn for my business, Patriciapatmiller.
Speaker D:And my company.
Speaker D:You can see what I'm building, you know, and I try to keep that updated.
Speaker D:And that's Blue Diamond Construction.
Speaker D:You could see.
Speaker D:I actually build buildings.
Speaker B:Oh, you're tremendous.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:And your book is called Kicking Karma's Ass.
Speaker B:Unbelievable stories of strength, resilience, and perseverance, all told with a twist of humor.
Speaker B:I suggest everybody pick it up.
Speaker B:I love your perspectives.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You can inspire so many people with your book, and there's so much people can learn from you.
Speaker B:Pat, bravo to everything you've done.
Speaker D:Thank you, ladies.
Speaker D:I appreciate it.
Speaker C:You're amazing.
Speaker C:Absolutely amazing.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:And, you know, I.
Speaker D:I have good days and bad days like everybody else.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:It's your perspective that makes all the difference.
Speaker C:That's what I love.
Speaker C:A lot of people tend to stay focused on the negative.
Speaker C:On the negative.
Speaker C:You don't.
Speaker C:Something happens, you're like, okay, you take it, you absorb it, but you flip it around.
Speaker C:How can I make this into.
Speaker C:Into gold?
Speaker C:You know?
Speaker C:And that's what I love.
Speaker D:That's right.
Speaker D:I appreciate that because that's exactly what I'm going for.
Speaker D:And people need to get outside, get in touch with nature.
Speaker D:I'm huge on that ground.
Speaker D:Yourself.
Speaker D:Go in the woods, walk barefoot.
Speaker D:You know, this is a beautiful Earth.
Speaker D:There's a lot to offer.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Pat, for being on the show.
Speaker D:Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker D:It was nice talking with you ladies.
Speaker C:Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker D:You're welcome.
Speaker B:We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.
Speaker B:And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media.
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Speaker B:They're a series of podcasts from different podcasters.
Speaker B:So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com youm'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to.
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Speaker B:Thanks for listening.
Speaker A:You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Takaro.
Speaker A:If you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback, email us at sjohnson at womenroadwarriors.
Speaker A:Com.
