How to Fire Up Your Relationship with Carolyn Sharp
How many couples out there feel like the spark has fizzled a bit? Maybe things have gotten a little… routine. Like you’re just going through the motions, more out of habit than joy? You’re definitely not alone. The good news? That spark can come back—and our guest is all about helping couples reignite it. Carolyn Sharp is the author of Fire It UP: Four Secrets to Reigniting Intimacy and Joy in Your Relationship, and she’s made it her mission to help people build stronger, more intentional connections. Not just to bring back the romance, but to create relationships that thrive—in every sense. Her approach is grounded in the science of the Psycho-biological Approach to Couple Therapy, and she studied directly under Dr. Stan Tatkin. Through her book and her work, she’s helping couples reconnect emotionally, intimately—and yes, in the bedroom too. Carolyn has dedicated her career to assisting couples in fostering deeper, more intentional connections that extend beyond mere romance, aiming instead to cultivate relationships that flourish in all aspects. Her methodology is firmly rooted in the Psycho-biological Approach to Couple Therapy, which she studied under the esteemed Dr. Stan Tatkin. Through her insightful work and transformative book, Carolyn offers a pathway for couples to reconnect not only emotionally but also intimately, thereby revitalizing their relationships in a comprehensive manner. Learn more in this Women Road Warriors interview with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro.
#Relationships #Intimacy #FireItUp #CarolynSharp #ShelleyJohnson #ShelleyMJohnson #KathyTuccaro #WomenRoadWarriors
FIRE IT UP Four Secrets to Reigniting Intimacy and Joy in Your Relationship
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Transcript
This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker A:From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.
Speaker A:So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
Speaker B:Welcome.
Speaker B:We're an award winning show dinner dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.
Speaker B:No topics off limits.
Speaker B:On our show, we power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.
Speaker B:I'm Shelley.
Speaker C:And I'm Kathy.
Speaker B:Too many couples find their relationships have become somewhat mundane or even boring.
Speaker B:The spark that brought them together seems to have gone out and they're just going through the motions, almost like it's an obligation, not a joy.
Speaker B:There are ways to light that fire again and rekindle the intimacy.
Speaker B:Carolyn Sharp is the Author of Fire It 4 Secrets to Reigniting intimacy and joy in your relationship.
Speaker B:Carolyn says she's on a mission to help couples build strong and healthy relationships with an intentional foundation that not only helps with the intimacy and happiness, but makes couples more productive and better parents.
Speaker B:Carolyn's work is based on the psychobiological approach to couple therapy, or PACT.
Speaker B:She studied under Dr.
Speaker B:Stan Tatkin.
Speaker B:Carolyn helps couples fire it up if their relationships have gone stale.
Speaker B:Her book covers the four steps that help people rebuild a healthy relationship and get reconnected on many levels, including the bedroom.
Speaker B:We have Carolyn with us today to tap into her insight.
Speaker B:Welcome, Carolyn.
Speaker B:Thank you for being on the show with us.
Speaker D:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker D:Shelly and Kathy, I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker C:Oh, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker B:This is exciting.
Speaker B:Yes, it is.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker B:You've got some really good nuggets to share with our listeners.
Speaker B:I thought before we dive into your book, your insightful book, maybe you could give our listeners a brief background of who you are, what you do, and what got you motivated to write the book.
Speaker D:Sure, I would love to.
Speaker D:So I started out as a social worker working with kids and families in Seattle.
Speaker D:And having been through stuff that I talk about a little bit in the book that led me to understand what kids and families need.
Speaker D:And when my daughter was born, who is now 20, I realized that being a parent and being a child therapist was a little bit like I was cutting everybody's meat for them at all times.
Speaker D:And so I gradually made the move to working with adults, specifically couples, because I really had understand after working in foster care and with some of the most troubled kids out there, that the best way I could support kids was through supporting their parents in having Healthier relationships to themselves and to each other.
Speaker D:And so I became a couples therapist, as you said.
Speaker D:I studied under Stan Tatkin, who is a mentor and friend, and just fell in love with the process of supporting relationships and saw how it impacted families and communities.
Speaker D:Because when we're in a committed, intimate relationship, which is the hardest thing we do as adults, for those of us that are them, it impacts everything.
Speaker D:So if we're struggling, we're distracted at work, we're not sleeping as well, and when things are going well, we're able to be more productive, we're able to be more creative, we're more patient with our children and our colleagues.
Speaker D:And so I really saw the ripple effect that work had in the world.
Speaker D:And so that is what led me to develop.
Speaker D:I developed retreats and I developed workshops to help couples in new and different ways.
Speaker D:And then when Covid happens, and so many of the couples I worked with were really finding extra, extra difficulty staying together through the pandemic.
Speaker D:And I was getting a little bit burned out seeing so many couples break up.
Speaker D:I really started looking at, all right, I need to explore other ways that are a little bit more preventative rather than reactive and crisis oriented.
Speaker D:Rather than doing triage, I really wanted to prevent the problems.
Speaker D:And that's where my program, the UP Marriage Accelerator, was born, which is what the book is based on.
Speaker D:So I developed this 12 lesson course that teaches couples and individuals everything they need to know to build a healthy relationship from the ground up, and how to keep their relationship healthy at 10 years, 20 years, 50 years.
Speaker D:I developed this incredible course.
Speaker D:And then a publisher approached me.
Speaker D:Flashpoint approached me about turning it into a book.
Speaker B:I absolutely love this.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Well, when you think about it, when you have a healthy relationship and if you have kids, this is a good example for children.
Speaker B:I mean, they become healthier adults, they grow into healthy people, you know?
Speaker D:Yeah, we learn everything through relationships.
Speaker D:There's a great couples therapist expert, Harville Hedricks, who says, we're born in relationships, we're broken in relationships, and we're healed in relationships.
Speaker D:And when you think about it, you know, from when we're babies, we're kept alive through relationship.
Speaker D:We're taught in school, through our relationship to our teachers and our peers, so on and so forth.
Speaker D:And, you know, most of our emotional injuries come through those relationships.
Speaker D:Getting hurt, feelings, trauma, all of that comes through relationships.
Speaker D:And so relationships hold the greatest power for our learning and growth as individuals.
Speaker B:Amen to that.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Goodness.
Speaker C:Does it ever.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So Carolyn, what would you say are the biggest reasons couples lose their spark, the fun and the chase me, chase me attitude to have a little romp around the house they had when they were first together?
Speaker D:Yeah, I think it's taking the relationship for granted.
Speaker D:You know, there's all of this Hollywood mythology that, you know, if you find the person you're meant to be with, the relationship just takes care of itself, that if you have to work at it, it isn't meant to be or there's something wrong.
Speaker D:And so lots of couples that I see have seen over the years get married or make a commitment, and then they sort of check it off the list, like, this area of my life is taken care of.
Speaker D:I can now focus on career, I can now focus on the kids, I can focus on my hobbies, whatever.
Speaker D:And that is so false.
Speaker D:And so the number one thing I see is that couples take their eye off the relationship.
Speaker D:They stop being intentional with feeding the relationship, taking care of the relationship, allowing for the growth and evolution.
Speaker D:We're all changing all the time throughout our.
Speaker D:So why wouldn't our relationship change?
Speaker D:And if our relationship is changing, how are we adapting to that change?
Speaker D:And most couples aren't looking at that.
Speaker D:They're not talking about that.
Speaker D:They're not doing the work to adapt what we still do, we still like doing the same thing.
Speaker D:Do we still like sex in the same ways?
Speaker D:All of that stuff.
Speaker D:They're not talking about that in an intentional way.
Speaker D:And that is what causes couples to sort of the relationship to go to sleep.
Speaker C:I was just going to say that, Shelly, you and I, we've discussed this before and how with the way today is and all these devices and you got this and you got that and you're hit from left and right and center and all around with all these distractions that it's like people's attention spans have lessened to almost like 0.5 of a second.
Speaker D:If I Zach you.
Speaker D:If I got you for 30 seconds.
Speaker C:Oh, my God, I'm good.
Speaker C:Without them looking at their phone or something, beeping or.
Speaker C:Or so I can see how things have changed over the last, say, even 25 years to where we're at a point where it's very difficult to maintain what we used to have.
Speaker C:So speaking relationship wise, it's almost like we're being ingrained to, oh, you know what?
Speaker C:It's not working, so just forget it.
Speaker C:Move on to the next thing, move on to the next, move on to the next, as opposed to stopping.
Speaker C:And wait a minute.
Speaker C:If what is not Working.
Speaker C:How can I fix this?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I think society as a whole has shifted in a way where we need to.
Speaker C:This needs to be addressed.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker D:100%.
Speaker D:The devices is.
Speaker D:You know, I've.
Speaker D:I've gotten asked a number of times, what do I see as like, the biggest red flags for relationships right now?
Speaker D:And technology is right up there.
Speaker D:That's one of the first things I come to because the, the self soothing.
Speaker D:Self soothing and distraction that we are so programmed to, really, since we were in lockdown and all we had were devices, all we had was our computer and our television and our phone to entertain us.
Speaker D:We've gotten so addicted to turning to that and getting news and sound bites and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker D:And we're turning away from each other and toward those things that provide the immediate laugh, the immediate gratification, entertainment, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker D:You know, why work on your relationship and look your partner in the eye and have an uncomfortable conversation when you can look at a baby goat wearing pajamas?
Speaker B:So true.
Speaker B:Oh, my.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:People forget you can't make love to your cell phone, you know?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:I love your analogy of feeding the relationship.
Speaker B:When you think about it, if you have a house plant or you have flowers outside, you have to water them and feed them and tend to them.
Speaker B:You can't just set it and forget it.
Speaker B:When you do, they die.
Speaker D:Yes, yes.
Speaker D:And you have to weed it.
Speaker D:You have to pay attention to.
Speaker D:Are there.
Speaker D:Are there little problems coming up?
Speaker D:Are there little weeds coming up that I can pull now or do I let them go for two weeks?
Speaker D:And now I have.
Speaker D:In.
Speaker D:In Seattle, it was a bind weed those.
Speaker D:Those vines that wrap their way around everything, and then it's like impossible to get them out.
Speaker D:Am I letting something grow that's really problematic.
Speaker D:That's going to strangle.
Speaker D:Strangle the plants.
Speaker D:So it's.
Speaker D:Gardening is a fantastic metaphor.
Speaker D:We have to fertilize and water and weed so that it stays healthy.
Speaker D:And we have to do that in our relationship.
Speaker B:So you talk about four steps that couples need to fire the spark again, fire it back up.
Speaker B:What are those four steps?
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:And I, instead of using a gardening analogy, as you all can gather, I use the fire analogy.
Speaker D:And so this comes from my love of being out in the wilderness and being camping, that a healthy fire needs three main ingredients, oxygen, ignition, and fuel.
Speaker D:That is the same for relationships.
Speaker D:And so those four steps are building.
Speaker D:First, there's the foundation, which is like the campfire, the fireplace.
Speaker D:If I'm getting, you know, really Digging into the metaphor, which is the.
Speaker D:Developing the why that we are together, being intentional about what is our relationship for.
Speaker D:And couples go back to whenever I ask that, I either get the, you know, the blink, blank, blank stare of, I don't know, I never really thought about it, it, or I get, well, love.
Speaker D:Love is the.
Speaker D:Love is the why.
Speaker D:And love, as anybody who's been in a relationship for longer than six months or a year knows that love doesn't, Isn't a constant that we experience in our relationship at all times.
Speaker D:If you've been in a long term relationship, you know that you can simultaneously feel love and hate for your partner at the same time, or rage or frustration or resentment.
Speaker D:And so love isn't enough to get us to do the work we need to do versus a purpose.
Speaker D:Like, you know, my, my purpose with my husband is building a life of adventure where we support each other in being our best selves.
Speaker D:And so that creates the umbrella vision, the purpose for why are we together?
Speaker D:And reminds us why do I want to initiate a hard conversation?
Speaker D:Because this is about helping both of us become our best selves.
Speaker D:And those conversations promote growth.
Speaker D:So that's the first step is creating that purpose and the goals for your relationship of what do you want to see and do and be together?
Speaker D:And that is the container that holds the relationship safe and keeps us on the, on the road together, you know, pointed toward a direction.
Speaker D:So that's the first step.
Speaker D:The second step is the oxygen, which is the deep understanding of one another of who we are and the deep acceptance for who we are.
Speaker D:Couples try to change each other.
Speaker D:We try and, you know, make you more like me, get you to do things the way I do things, things.
Speaker D:And it creates distance in the relationship that is based on this sense of, I don't, I don't, there's not room for me to be me in the relationship.
Speaker D:And so creating, feeding the relationship that oxygen of, I see you, I understand you, I know why you do things the way you do, and I accept who you are as a person.
Speaker D:It isn't the same as accepting everything you do the way you do it and saying, all right, it's okay that you yell or it's okay that you do that.
Speaker D:It's not about the behaviors, it's about, about accepting each other as who we are as people.
Speaker D:So that's the, that's the oxygen along with the right amount of space in the relationship, time together, time apart, because we need a certain amount of distance.
Speaker D:Covid really taught us that.
Speaker D:Oh, yeah, Appreciate each other and for there to be a little bit of mystery if you're on top of each other 24, seven, that is just not romantic.
Speaker D:That is not sexy, that is not fun.
Speaker D:So the finding the right balance for each of us and our relationship, that's, that's the other piece of oxygen.
Speaker D:And so that's the next step is understanding what do we need to do to understand each other and to give a, give our relationship the right amount of space.
Speaker D:The fuel is the safety and security to be ourselves as well as the communication mechanisms to talk about what we need to talk about to keep our relationship healthy.
Speaker D:So that's the fuel that keeps the relationship burning is really good, honest, safe, compassionate, curious communication.
Speaker D:And then finally ignition.
Speaker D:The thing that lights the fire and keeps it spark filled and fun and sexy is the play, the mystery, the romance, the passion that we need to keep our relationship separate from all the other relationships we're in.
Speaker D:What makes us different from a friendship that we have, it's that spark.
Speaker D:And that's the thing that we fell in love with in the first place.
Speaker D:So that's the, that's the fourth step.
Speaker D:And you know, it's, I teach it in a, in a sequential way of doing step one, then two, then three and then four.
Speaker D:But really it's more like a dance where we're, we're sprinkling a little oxygen and then we're working on our communication and our fuel and then we're going to ignition.
Speaker D:And so it's, it's meant to really be a dance but it's taught in a, in a sequential way.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker B:Human beings do kind of dance.
Speaker B:I mean there's nothing in the way we do things is always in a logical order.
Speaker D:Nope.
Speaker D:We are very emotional beings.
Speaker C:You know, when you were talking about that, I realized that I come up from a very dysfunctional family and relationships were very messed up in my home and I didn't understand what they were.
Speaker C:So when I got old enough to, I got married and my daughter, I still didn't understand the concept and I didn't, you know, you just kind of put one foot in front of the other doing the best.
Speaker C:Jeff Ham and I didn't realize until I was 40 and in treatment where the she.
Speaker C:My therapist explained to me the difference of walking side by side with your partner.
Speaker C:You can hold hands, you each have your separate lives and just, you know, like you said, you're, you're, you're you and he's, he and like it's just, it's you you walk separately as opposed to being enmeshed in each other, kind of like two that are all intertwined and you're, it becomes messy.
Speaker C:And then you're, you're living his dreams and his life or, or vice versa.
Speaker C:And there's no individuality.
Speaker C:And I had to take a course on codependency to understand that.
Speaker C:And I had to learn about boundary setting.
Speaker C:Like, like Shelly, like I've told her many times, like, the best word I ever learned was no.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker C:The best word I ever learned was no.
Speaker C:You know, but it, it took me until I was 40 to figure it all out.
Speaker C:And even then I say that, you know what?
Speaker C:I'm still no expert in relationships.
Speaker C:I know nothing.
Speaker C:And I still struggle with, with my own relationship with myself is what I'm working on right now again, for the hundredth time.
Speaker D:Well, and we're continually learning and relearning and you know, we, we, we do what we were taught to do.
Speaker D:And so we all are reenacting and re performing what we learned as children.
Speaker D:That's what attachment theory is really all about, which I talk about in the book quite a bit that, you know, we are trained how to be in relationship by our parents who learn from their parents and so on and so forth.
Speaker D:And so of course you're, you're, you're doing what you were taught to do, which may have come with like, some people got like really explicit instructional, instructional manuals where you don't get mad, you know, like, oh, we don't do that.
Speaker D:We don't talk about that, you know, all that sort of stuff, or people that.
Speaker D:It was all underground.
Speaker D:It was all implicit where you were punished if you talked about things, but you were never told you're not supposed to talk about things.
Speaker D:And so we all have different messed up programming.
Speaker D:And in our intimate relationships, we relearn, we can reteach each other if we choose to do that work.
Speaker D:Otherwise we're just continually fumbling and doing it over and over again and making mistake after mistake.
Speaker D:So it's so powerful to do this work with intentionality to decide, all right, I really want to learn how to be healthier.
Speaker D:So I, you know, I applaud you.
Speaker D:And there's, there's regularly confusion about that codependence thing because people think I'm talking about codependence when what I'm really talking about is interdependence is developing healthy dependence with each other where we're not trying to meet each other's, all of each other's human needs.
Speaker D:We're trying to meet each other's needs within the relationship.
Speaker D:So you and your partner, you need affection and he needs space, or you need communication and he needs time to process or whatever it is in your relationship, you're responsible for each other's relationship needs of what your partner needs from you.
Speaker D:You are responsible for that.
Speaker D:Not, you know, all of the things you need to be happy and healthy.
Speaker D:We're responsible for that on our own as individuals.
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Speaker A:Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
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Speaker B:So let's be real for a second.
Speaker B:How many couples out there feel like the spark has fizzled a bit?
Speaker B:Maybe things have gotten a little routine, like you're just going through the motions more out of habit than joy.
Speaker B:You're definitely not alone.
Speaker B:But the good news, that spark could come back.
Speaker B:And our guest is all about helping couples reignite it.
Speaker B:Carolyn Sharp is the author of fire it 4 secrets to reigniting intimacy and joy in your relationship.
Speaker B:And she's made it her mission to help people build stronger, more intentional connections.
Speaker B:Not just to bring back the romance, but to create relationships that thrive in every sense.
Speaker B:Her approach is grounded in the science of the psychobiological approach to couple therapy, and she studied directly under Dr.
Speaker B:Stan Tatkin.
Speaker B:Through her book and her work, she's helped couples reconnect emotionally, intimately, and in the bedroom, too.
Speaker B:She's been giving us great insights.
Speaker B:Carolyn, would you say for couples to rekindle the fire, both have to be on board with this?
Speaker B:Quite often, couples will go to counseling because one of the partners says, we need this, and the other partner's not on board with it.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:Well, you know, in an ideal world, it's best if both people want it at the exact right, right amount, the equal.
Speaker D:Equal.
Speaker D:And at the same time, it's unusual in my experience for both people to be equ.
Speaker D:Leading the charge.
Speaker D:You know, that they're shared, both marching in, saying, we want a different relationship.
Speaker D:It is more common for one person to lead the charge.
Speaker D:That's not.
Speaker D:It's not a problem.
Speaker D:Often what happens is that the person that is really initiating the process is doing so in a way that is making the other person scared or shame, feel shame about participating in the process.
Speaker D:They're inadvertently identifying their reluctant partner as the problem.
Speaker D:And so the partner goes in feeling like, I'm going to go into this and I'm going to be told I'm doing it wrong.
Speaker D:I don't want to do that.
Speaker D:I don't want to engage with that.
Speaker D:I don't want to be seen as the problem.
Speaker D:And so I find that, you know, like, I obviously, ideally, both.
Speaker D:Both people are reading this book and working it together.
Speaker D:But even if one person is reading this book and learning and identifying and taking accountability for, oh, I think I'm talking to my partner the wrong way about this issue.
Speaker D:My partner doesn't feel invited.
Speaker D:They feel coerced about working on our relationship or they feel shamed about it, if I am more loving, more encouraging, more accepting, my partner now feels safe to identify.
Speaker D:Yeah, I need to do things differently also.
Speaker D:But that's what often.
Speaker D:That's most often that's what I find is the wrench in the works of both couples coming forward.
Speaker D:It's a Lack of safety that they both feel to be able to say, here are my needs in the relationship and here are the ways that I'm not, I'm not doing my part.
Speaker D:There has to be safety for both people to do that.
Speaker B:Listening is probably one of the key factors.
Speaker B:I think a lot of times people, if they've got a troublesome relationship, they stop listening.
Speaker D:Yep, yep.
Speaker D:And it, listening is a skill that most of us don't actually have as much as we think we have.
Speaker D:You know, I'm a professional listener.
Speaker D:As a therapist and a coach, that is my job, that is my skill set.
Speaker D:And in my relationships, it's still sometimes hard for me to listen.
Speaker D:Most often as humans, when someone is talking to us, we're already thinking about what we want to say back.
Speaker D:And at the moment that we start contemplating what we're going to say in response to what's being said to us, we're not listening anymore.
Speaker D:And so it takes deliberate practice to learn the skill of listening and really taking in and thinking about what your partner is saying to you.
Speaker D:And that is there's a lessening exercise.
Speaker D:In the book that my couples have over and over again, I've had multiple couples say that exercise is a game changer.
Speaker D:It has changed everything we do in practicing that.
Speaker D:It feels a little silly, admittedly, at first doing that exercise because it is so step by step, but once they actually start practicing it, they're like, oh my God.
Speaker D:It's changed everything in our conversations by us slowing down and really listening to one another.
Speaker B:Do you have some highlights of the exercise?
Speaker D:Well, it's really about pausing, taking turns.
Speaker D:So if we were doing the exercise, first of all, we would be facing each other so that we are looking at each other and seeing each other.
Speaker D:Because only about up to, at max, like 30, 35% of our communication is the words that we're using.
Speaker D:The rest of it's non verbal.
Speaker D:And couples miss so much of the communication because they're not, they're not noticing that, you know, with their eyes or even with their other senses because, you know, there are non sighted people as well in relationships.
Speaker D:So there are other senses we can rely on to really feel the energy and the tone and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker D:So first just slow down, face each other, put all of your attention on your, your partner and take turns.
Speaker D:So decide who's going first, who's talking first, and then work together.
Speaker D:The person who is listening is focusing on, all right, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna listen and I'm gonna.
Speaker D:We're gonna have cues where if.
Speaker D:If you've given me too much information, I'm gonna pause you so that I can really take in, because it is not common.
Speaker D:And I am certainly the verbose one in my.
Speaker D:In my partnership where I can over talk Jeff all day long.
Speaker D:And he has to, like, you know, hand ups, hand signal me to say, hey, hold on.
Speaker D:I'm still like three sentences back.
Speaker D:And so we'll.
Speaker D:We'll develop hand signals to.
Speaker D:Or whatever.
Speaker D:Signals to alert the partner that I need a second.
Speaker D:So the partner who's listening is really focusing on, let me hear what you're saying.
Speaker D:Let me take it in and reflect.
Speaker D:Connected back to you.
Speaker D:And the person that's talking is paying attention to how's my partner doing?
Speaker D:So that it.
Speaker D:Because it's really a team sport, because if I am not careful to take care of you while I talk, I could go off and I could use language that is triggering and upsetting to you.
Speaker D:I could, you know, forget myself and talk, you know, all the day long.
Speaker D:And we're not engaged in a process.
Speaker D:So those are.
Speaker D:I could go on and on about this, and I don't want to.
Speaker D:I don't want to put anybody to.
Speaker B:Sleep, but it makes so much sense.
Speaker B:And it keeps people maybe from playing the blame game.
Speaker B:Because I think that when couples run into.
Speaker B:When they run amok, there's a lot of blame that can be thrown around.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, you did this and this.
Speaker C:And people bring up stuff from years ago.
Speaker C:Oh, man, I just don't let it go.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, I've heard men say, well, women have like the longest memory.
Speaker B:They even know what you were wearing on a particular day 10 years ago.
Speaker B:You know, and it's not protective.
Speaker B:People get on the defensive.
Speaker D:Well, and defensiveness is a.
Speaker D:Is a biological reaction to feeling attacked.
Speaker D:And I emphasize that in the book because, you know, I will have people complain my partner gets defensive.
Speaker D:Well, your partner's experiencing feeling attacked.
Speaker D:So you have to look at what am I doing that's triggering that response in them.
Speaker D:Physiologically, because it is a physiological response.
Speaker D:Our nervous system is responding to feeling attacked.
Speaker D:And it's not like, you know, I'm doing anything to.
Speaker D:To cause my partner that.
Speaker D:But I have to look at, is it my tone?
Speaker D:Is it my body language?
Speaker D:Is it my facial expression?
Speaker D:Is it my volume?
Speaker D:What is it that's causing my partner to start speeding up and.
Speaker D:And defending themselves and defending themselves so that we can engage more productively?
Speaker D:And that listening exercise takes us way because the experience of just feeling listened to, of having someone sit with the only intention of hearing us and understanding us, creates so much connection and so much power toward healing things.
Speaker D:Because many of us have not experienced really being listened to.
Speaker D:Of.
Speaker D:I don't have an agenda other than understanding you.
Speaker D:That soothes a lot of, of the injuries of just, you know, when I feel listened to, then I want to listen to Jeff.
Speaker D:And when Jeff feels listened to, listen to, then he wants to hear me.
Speaker D:It's a really powerful thing of just going through the experience of doing this exercise just for the sake of understanding.
Speaker D:Knowing each other better really is so, so powerful.
Speaker B:It creates a safe place.
Speaker B:Doesn't.
Speaker D:Does it Does.
Speaker B:If you think you're going to be attacked when you're saying something, then it's not going to bring out who you truly are.
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Maybe people get lost in the relationship and that's part of the problem because they never could really be themselves.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And the couple didn't understand, you know, that's going back to the foundation piece.
Speaker D:They didn't understand that that was what their partner needed and that that was the purpose of being together, was to create a safe place for my partner to grow and be their best self, to feel safe, to exist in the world, for healing, whatever it is.
Speaker D:And when we, you know, set that purpose, when we set that intention, it reminds us, okay, I need to, I need to take the time to really understand where my partner is coming from.
Speaker C:There's a couple co workers who have been with their spouses for a long time, but they don't live together.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker C:They find they've tried living together and it's not so much didn't work so well.
Speaker C:So they just decided to, to remain, you know, live their separate lives.
Speaker C:But, but, but I mean, still be a couple, but just never have that move in because they, they found that it was too suffocating.
Speaker C:And I mean everybody has different ways of doing things and.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:There's little habits and things that drive you nuts.
Speaker C:Oh, toilet paper, which way?
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker C:Whichever their toilet paper goes.
Speaker C:And some people like, for these two co workers, they find that it's.
Speaker C:They've tried both and it just works for them to each have their own apartment and just still be together.
Speaker C:The one they think they've been together like years and you still live apart.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:There are a million different ways to be in relationship.
Speaker D:And you know, there's lots of judgment out there about, you know, there's, you know, you're supposed to live together, you're supposed to sleep together.
Speaker D:Because sleep, divorce.
Speaker D:I don't know if you all have heard that term, but yeah, couples that sleep in separate bedrooms or separate beds that, oh, you know, that means your relationship is in trouble.
Speaker D:Or polyamory is another one that there's, like, incredible amounts of judgment about that.
Speaker D:Oh, no, that's not right.
Speaker D:You know, every couple gets to decide what's healthy for them.
Speaker D:And as long as you are really together, deciding how do we.
Speaker D:How do we make this relationship healthy for both of us, then you're good.
Speaker D:You're good.
Speaker B:Well, when you think about it, the judgments that people have, it's.
Speaker B:It's nobody else's business.
Speaker D:Yep, yep.
Speaker B:And long distance relationships, people have done them for years.
Speaker B:It takes a special, I guess, attitude to be able to pull it off.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, it's more complicated than a.
Speaker D:A relationship where you live together.
Speaker D:Just like, you know, polyamorous relationships are more complicated because you got more.
Speaker D:You got more people.
Speaker D:Relationships with kids more complicated because you got a little being that's dependent on the two of you.
Speaker D:So there are all different kinds of things that add levels of complication that add, you know, like, you know, in that garden, you've got.
Speaker D:You've got a.
Speaker D:Whatever, a species in there that you need to keep an eye on because it could take over or it could cause problems.
Speaker D:And so you just have to be aware that, all right, we've got a complication, you know, I mean, jobs where one person is on the road a lot.
Speaker C:I'm in northern Canada.
Speaker C:I live in camp, and then I'm home for two weeks.
Speaker C:My husband of eight years, we worked at the same camp on the same schedule, like, different jobs.
Speaker C:So it worked out perfect.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So it was great.
Speaker C:But once we split up six years ago, I'm finding I didn't date for, what, two or three years just because I needed a break.
Speaker C:But now that I'm back in the dating forum, it's like it's almost mission impossible to find someone who can kind of, you know, go with my crazy schedule.
Speaker C:And it's like, you know what?
Speaker C:Maybe being single is not so bad.
Speaker C:I don't know, because, I mean, it's not fair.
Speaker C:And now, like, my mother's going through a bunch of stuff, so I'm away even more.
Speaker C:Well, you know, it's very hard to balance out.
Speaker B:Yeah, it can be.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Would you say that men typically.
Speaker B:I've heard this, that men are actually more dependent.
Speaker B:They really require, I think, women in their lives more often, Quite often, if there's A divorce or the spouse dies, men are more likely to remarry.
Speaker B:So it seems like women are more of the caretaker so often, which of course that creates problems because then they've got all this burden.
Speaker B:Would you say that the imbalance is part of it too?
Speaker D:It certainly can be.
Speaker D:I mean, I am not one to, you know, paint with that the broad brush that all men are this or all women are that or all gay people are this or whatever.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:But, you know, the patriarchy of the gender roles that we are assigned definitely messes with relationships and messes with what we expect of ourselves.
Speaker D:You know, in healthy sexuality, it really messes with things pretty profoundly because for women, our self consciousness gets in the way of like, what our body's supposed to look like, and that really casts a long shadow.
Speaker D:And then for men, being like, virile and strong, their, you know, performance and being good at things really monkeys with it.
Speaker D:So though the gender roles of what women are supposed to be like, you know, we're supposed to be nurturing and caring and caregivers and all of that sort of stuff, and men are supposed to be providers and all of that nonsense that just because of your gender, you're supposed to be one way or another, it certainly messes with things.
Speaker D:And so it's another area that, that a couple, you know, a straight couple, I mean, any, any configuration of couple needs to look at.
Speaker D:How does what we were taught about our gender inform how we are in relationship?
Speaker D:Do we agree with that?
Speaker D:Do we, like, you know, if we have a traditional configuration, do we like the roles that we're in?
Speaker D:Does this feel fair?
Speaker D:Does this feel mutual and create the safety for both people to be honest, so that you can set something that works for the two of you rather than setting something because that's what you were taught was the right way to be in relationship, that, you know, whatever.
Speaker D:Women do the laundry and men earn the money or they do the budget or whatever it is.
Speaker D:Does that work for us?
Speaker D:Us, because that's what society tells us, or does it work for us because we like what we do?
Speaker D:So it's another area that couples should be mindful of and open to talking about.
Speaker B:Honestly, I don't think people consciously even think of all these things, but these are big issues.
Speaker D:They are big issues.
Speaker B:When you are at work, you discuss the roles of people and what they're doing.
Speaker B:When you have a significant other, you get married, it isn't always discussed, it's assumed.
Speaker B:And sometimes people don't like what they have to do.
Speaker B:It's like, wait a minute, I want to be doing all of this.
Speaker B:Why do you think I'm supposed to?
Speaker B:Well, my family did it this way.
Speaker B:Okay, well, mine didn't.
Speaker B:So, I mean, here had odds right away.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:And they don't examine that, you know, and they don't even talk about it.
Speaker D:So there's not.
Speaker D:More often than not when a couple gets married, maybe they've talked about kit kids, maybe they've talked about finances.
Speaker D:But it usually only goes as, are we having a joint or a separate accounts?
Speaker D:How are we, you know, but they don't talk about what were you taught about money?
Speaker D:What were you taught was the right way to handle money?
Speaker D:You know, do you say is money for saving, is money for spending, is, you know, all that sort of stuff?
Speaker D:And we don't talk about it.
Speaker D:We carry these assumptions forward.
Speaker D:We act on these assumptions and then we get mad or feel victimized by the way our partner responds to the assumptions that we're carrying.
Speaker D:And it's like, hold on, let's be fair about this.
Speaker D:Let's recognize, all right, I'm expecting you to know something that I'm carrying in my brain.
Speaker D:But you actually aren't carrying that in your brain.
Speaker D:Let's.
Speaker D:Let's be honest about that reality.
Speaker B:It is interesting how people jump into relationships.
Speaker B:They don't think about any of these things.
Speaker B:They probably spend more time analyzing the paper paperwork for a mortgage than they do all of the expectations that are going to be down the road in a relationship, which is hopefully a lifetime commitment.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Well, and, you know, here's the, here's the.
Speaker D:The dirty little secret about my book.
Speaker D:While it's, you know, it's reignite intimacy and joy, it's really ideally written for a couple that is just starting their relationship so that they learn how to.
Speaker D:How to build a relation healthier or a single person, you know, a person who's not in relationship yet of like informing how to create a healthy relationship from the beginning.
Speaker D:You know, you can, you can apply these principles at any point at 40 years and 60 years together, but you can also do it at four dates in of.
Speaker D:You know, how do we want our relationship to go?
Speaker D:I like, not very many people want to do that because they want to just stay in the, you know, ripping the clothes off of each other all the time moment of just having fun.
Speaker D:But yeah, you know, have the whipped.
Speaker B:Cream fights and what, forever?
Speaker D:Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker B:But it's a lot more to that.
Speaker B:And when you think about it, sex is what, 10% of a relationship in terms of when you're awake.
Speaker B:It's how you communicate.
Speaker B:Certainly, yes, sex is communication too, but it's not the basis of a relationship.
Speaker B:And when people make it the basis of a relationship, is that kind of a recipe for disaster too?
Speaker D:It is.
Speaker D:Unless, you know, that couple is content with, with sex being it.
Speaker D:But eventually our tastes change, our senses change.
Speaker D:What, what is appealing and sexy to us changes over time.
Speaker D:You know, just like, you know, our favorite food is one thing, and then a year later we can't stand it because we've eaten too much of it.
Speaker D:We, we, our tastes change.
Speaker D:So for, you know, long term, committed couples, sex as the basis of the relationship doesn't, doesn't last fast.
Speaker D:It doesn't stick.
Speaker D:And it's, it's common for couples who, you know, are doing my program, they want to do the, the ignite part first.
Speaker D:And you know, I'll, I'll introduce ideas and let them skip ahead.
Speaker D:But really you need each of the components, you need that, that purpose for your sex life.
Speaker D:What's our sex life for?
Speaker D:What does it do for us?
Speaker D:What do we want it to do for us?
Speaker D:And then oxygen of acceptance, of understanding and, and seeing each other and understanding.
Speaker D:What do you like?
Speaker D:What feels good, what, what turns you on, what doesn't turn you on that feeds a healthy sex life.
Speaker D:Communication in fuel.
Speaker D:That's feeds a healthy sex life because most couples can't even talk about it.
Speaker D:Our puritanical roots in this country, the sort of religious roots of this country really have gotten in the way, in my opinion and in what I've read of people feeling free to express themselves and talk about it because, you know, there's one way to do it and it should only be when you're married.
Speaker D:And you know, all of this garbage that prevents us from being honest about what we like, what turns us on, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker D:And so it's, it's one of my favorite areas to talk about with couples to make it safe for them to talk about their, their preferences, their habits, all of those things, because it really empowers people to be themselves, themselves.
Speaker D:And that's the biggest turn on really, in a healthy relationship is your partner feeling totally safe to let their, let their crazy, you know, inhibitions go and let all their crazy interests be really out, in, out and proud.
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Speaker A:Welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker B:So if you've ever looked at your partner across the dinner table and thought, when did we turn into roommates?
Speaker B:You're not alone.
Speaker B:It's surprisingly common for relationships to lose that original spark and start feeling a little flat, it doesn't have to stay that way.
Speaker B:And that's exactly what our guest Carolyn Sharp has been talking about.
Speaker B:She's the Author of Fire It 4 Secrets to Reigniting Intimacy and joy in your relationship, and she's on a mission to help couples reconnect on a deeper level, emotionally, physically, and even as parents and partners in life.
Speaker B:She's helped countless couples go from feeling stuck to feeling inspired.
Speaker B:And her book lays out exactly how to do that in four clear, powerful steps.
Speaker B:Carolyn, I would imagine reading your book and even going to you as a therapist, people discover a lot of things about themselves and their partners they didn't even know.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:Yes.
Speaker D:It's so fun.
Speaker D:That's the funnest part of being a therapist and coach is helping couples discover all of these, like, hidden gems of like, oh my God, I didn't know this about myself and wow, I feel so much more authentically me.
Speaker D:And creating that space in a relationship is the most exciting and rewarding thing.
Speaker B:I get to do to be able to be authentic in a safe place like a relationship.
Speaker B:That's a wonderful blessing.
Speaker B:I mean, that makes life worth living.
Speaker D:A hundred percent, 100%.
Speaker B:You know, some people prefer to live by themselves and that's fine.
Speaker B:But I do think that human beings are.
Speaker B:We're social animals.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:We are social animals and we need others.
Speaker D:I mean, that's Some of the research that is coming out, came out and is continuing to come out from the pandemic is the impact of loneliness on the human body and disconnection.
Speaker D:And it's not the number of relationships that we have, it's the quality of the connections that we have.
Speaker D:You know, and I think Brene Brown has done this research, research that you need one to two really close friends or like that, that most people have one or two really close people to them.
Speaker D:And some, for some people, that's their partner or spouse, and for others it's a, it's a close girlfriend or guy friend or whatever.
Speaker D:And we need those connections for our health.
Speaker D:Just like we need oxygen and, and food, we need relationships.
Speaker D:Whether it's a, an intimate partnership or not is, you know, not the most important thing, but it is through relationships that we grow as humans.
Speaker B:Well, I think that when we're growing with someone who we're with and, you know, relationships, we're going to grow as a person and we're going to be able to accomplish more in life.
Speaker B:All of it is such a wonderful positive.
Speaker B:I mean, we're kind of like a flower that just starts to blossom and open up when we're in something that doesn't have the proper oxygen.
Speaker B:It's like you're talking about, I mean, flowers can't, can't grow without oxygen.
Speaker B:They'll wilt, right?
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:And it's, you know, like I said, a long term committed relationship is the hardest thing we do as adults because we're essentially living with a living, breathing mirror of ourselves.
Speaker D:Because that is what is so challenging.
Speaker D:We are seeing ourselves reflected back to us.
Speaker D:And when there are problems, it stirs stuff up in us.
Speaker D:And so we're sort of living with another trigger or of all of our emotional wounds.
Speaker D:And it is very difficult work, but being able to sit in it do it helps us become ourselves.
Speaker D:Help us, helps us understand ourselves and do that work to really become the best version of ourselves.
Speaker B:I love this so much.
Speaker C:Yeah, me too.
Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker B:Carolyn, where can people find your book?
Speaker B:I'm sure that a lot of people would like to pick that up and read it.
Speaker B:And also.
Speaker B:Can they work with you virtually?
Speaker D:Yes, yes, they can work with me.
Speaker D:I have group programs and I have individual programs and I.
Speaker D:And I do retreats.
Speaker D:Taking a group of couples to Tuscany in the fall.
Speaker D:Yeah, it was.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's a spectacular week in Villa in Tuscany.
Speaker B:So that sounds romantic.
Speaker D:It really is this 14th century villa with a private chef, a hilarious private chef and a pool and tours of vineyards and art museums and all that.
Speaker D:So anyway, that's.
Speaker D:That's an opportunity.
Speaker D:But my book is anywhere books are sold.
Speaker D:So Amazon or Barnes and Noble or if you like, to support independent bookstores, which I love, bookshop.org and that's all on my website, Carolyn sharp.com they can find all that information.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:Fire it up up 4 secrets to reigniting intimacy and joy in your relationship.
Speaker B:And you know, this would be something that maybe before somebody, like you said before, they're considering a relationship.
Speaker B:Maybe this should be a required tutorial.
Speaker B:Here you go.
Speaker B:Here's the manual.
Speaker D:This, huh?
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, people don't get a manual when they get married.
Speaker B:They get cookbooks, but they really don't know how to manage a relationship and they start bickering over the stupidest things.
Speaker D:That's one of the things you discover in a relationship is what are we really actually fighting about?
Speaker B:Yeah, you end up fighting about these menial little things, these petty things, and that's really not what's bugging you, but it's like the straw that broke the camel's back, you know?
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker D:Well, humans like to attach to facts and data because it's something we can hold.
Speaker D:And the truth is we're fighting about something deeper.
Speaker D:You know, the toilet paper is really about not feeling weird.
Speaker D:Listen to the.
Speaker D:The, you know, who's doing the dishes is about equality in the household, but we don't actually ever talk to it.
Speaker D:We just fight about who's doing more, you know, when and where and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker D:Because as humans, we really like the facts, the data, rather than the more amorphous, trickier, emotional reasons behind the vice.
Speaker B:Humans make things complicated.
Speaker D:We sure do.
Speaker B:Carolyn, this has been wonderful.
Speaker B:I love what you're doing, and I think that there are a lot of listeners who are going to get a lot of help out of your book.
Speaker D:Well, I hope so.
Speaker D:That is my mission, is trying to help the world one relationship at a time.
Speaker B:That's a good motto.
Speaker B:Thank you for being on the show with us.
Speaker D:Yes, thank you for having me.
Speaker D:It's been wonderful getting to talk to you.
Speaker C:It's been very, very insightful.
Speaker B:Yes, it has.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker B:We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.
Speaker B:And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media.
Speaker B:And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on our website.
Speaker B:We also have a selection of podcasts Just for Women.
Speaker B:They're a series of podcasts from different podcasters.
Speaker B:So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com youm'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to.
Speaker B:Podcasts Made for Women Women Road warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube, and others.
Speaker B:Check us out and please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker B:Thanks for listening.
Speaker A:You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Short, Shelley Johnson and Kathy Takaro.
Speaker A:If you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback, email us at sjohnson at womenroadwarriors.
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