A Powerful Approach to Addiction and Mental Health
Natasha Silver Bell's journey exemplifies the formidable challenges many women face in overcoming substance abuse and the arduous path to recovery. A former Miss Michigan USA, successful New York model, and mother of three, Natasha battled drug and alcohol addiction while navigating a tumultuous marriage and an unstable career, ultimately leading to a contentious divorce. As she embraced sobriety, her life underwent a significant transformation, reinforcing her understanding that true courage involves taking decisive action despite pervasive fears. Today, Natasha is a preeminent expert in substance use disorder, serving on the board of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and leading her own organization, Silver Bell Global, which assists individuals globally in their recovery journeys. In this episode of Women Road Warriors, Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro explore her profound insights and the innovative approaches she employs to empower others in their struggles against addiction.
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Transcript
This is Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker A:From the corporate office to the cab of a truck, they're here to inspire and empower women in all professions.
Speaker A:So gear down, sit back, and enjoy.
Speaker A:Welcome.
Speaker A:We're an award winning show today dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights.
Speaker A:No topics off limits on our show.
Speaker A:We power women on the road to success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need.
Speaker A:I'm Shelly.
Speaker B:And I'm Kathy.
Speaker A:Many women struggle with substance abuse.
Speaker A:It's difficult to break free of addiction.
Speaker A:Natasha Silver Bell has faced many of those obstacles.
Speaker A:The former Miss Michigan, usa, New York City model and mother of three struggled with drug and alcohol addiction.
Speaker A:She also had a troubled marriage, a career path with many ups and downs, and eventually a contentious divorce.
Speaker A:Natasha says as she leaned into her sobriety, her marriage became even more fragmented and a divorce was a risk as she had no college degree and also had dyslexia.
Speaker A:Despite all those obstacles, she prevailed and ventured out on her own.
Speaker A:She learned that courage is not the absence of fear.
Speaker A:It's taking action despite the fear.
Speaker A:Today, Natasha is a highly regarded expert in substance use disorder and recovery.
Speaker A:She's on the board of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and serves as an ambassador for Partnership to end Addiction.
Speaker A:She owns Silverbell Global, which helps people internationally.
Speaker A:Her organization counsels people with substance use disorders, eating disorders, personality disorders, and other mental health.
Speaker A:Natasha is also a co founder of Youth Prevention Mentors that empowers young adults through mentorship and risk mitigation, as well as the Townhouse, a residence in New York City that offers bespoke treatment programs tailored to the individual.
Speaker A:Natasha has moved mountains for herself and other people.
Speaker A:We have Natasha with us today to tap into her insight and we're extremely honored.
Speaker A:Welcome, Natasha.
Speaker A:Thank you for being on the show with us.
Speaker B:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I was just listening to the recap of my life story, spoken so succinctly, and I'm patting myself on the back, like, job well done.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I'm giving you one virtually too.
Speaker B:Holy man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You've been a powerhouse, Natasha, and you overcame a lot of obstacles.
Speaker A:Maybe we could discuss a little bit about that because women have different issues, certainly, but I'm sure, you know, when they're in the middle of it, it seems like such a mountain.
Speaker B:That is incredibly true.
Speaker B:And just again.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Take you, taking me back.
Speaker B:Kind of like reliving where I began and where I am now.
Speaker B:And I just didn't think I would have the courage to ever do what it is.
Speaker B:I knew in my then sober mind, as I was coming into my own sobriety and waking up and seeing these three beautiful little children that I had given birth to, I was going, how would I ever change?
Speaker B:Why would I.
Speaker B:Why would I leave the father of their children?
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Why would I do that?
Speaker B:Come on, Natasha, can't you just get it together?
Speaker B:Come on, Tash.
Speaker B:I would really pep myself up to stay together as a family.
Speaker B:Obviously, I think families are really important, but for me, I was like, why would I take my children away from their father?
Speaker B:Why would I want to do that?
Speaker B:And that was the internal struggle, I think, more than anything else.
Speaker B:Forget the money and the fear of being alone.
Speaker B:All big stressors in the life of somebody contemplating a move.
Speaker B:But that intern internal comfortability of making the move once decided was really the struggle within me for many, many years.
Speaker A:We have to learn to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, don't we?
Speaker B:Oh, it's so annoyingly true.
Speaker A:Humans like security.
Speaker A:They really do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially as a mom.
Speaker B:You're an or somebody, a caregiver, a loved one, providing for others.
Speaker B:You want safety, consistency.
Speaker B:And I knew how important that would be for my children, and I didn't have any of that if I was to le.
Speaker B:Leave.
Speaker B:And again, what justification would I have for leaving?
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That was the biggest struggle for me.
Speaker A:Do you think people, when they're dealing with substance abuse, too, one of the reasons that they don't stop abusing substances is because that's also kind of a comfort zone.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:Well, habits, you know, I love quoting Charlie Munger.
Speaker B:He's Warren Buffett's partner, and he says the bonds of addiction are too loose to be felt until they're too tight to be broken.
Speaker B:And for me, I didn't even know I had a problem.
Speaker B:And when I did wake up to the fact that I was dependent and needing a substance in my life to feel okay in the day, then I had to wrestle with that and go, okay, how would I ever function without this?
Speaker B:What does this even look like to put a substance down?
Speaker B:And then I would just get scared and run and hide more into the substance.
Speaker B:To your point.
Speaker C:Sounds so familiar from so many women out there.
Speaker C:People out there, not just women.
Speaker C:It's interesting that you said that, because yesterday I had.
Speaker C:For the last two days, I had a conversation with the lady who came behind my table holding a glass of wine, and she bought a book, and she was.
Speaker C:We were talking about sobriety.
Speaker C:She says, I can't believe you went 12 years without a drink.
Speaker C:She says, I just don't believe it.
Speaker C:And I'm like, no, it's been 12 years.
Speaker C:And here she's drinking her wine and sloshing it a little bit.
Speaker C:And I said, when was the last time that you didn't.
Speaker C:You did not have a drink?
Speaker C:And she looks at me and she scoffs and laughs and says, I think it's been about 15 years.
Speaker C:She says, I'm fully aware that I'm a functioning alcoholic, but I just choose to drink, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker C:So yesterday we continued our conversation after the conference was over in the pool, and again, she's drinking her wine, and she says, I cannot imagine a day without alcohol.
Speaker C:And she says, in my life, it's impossible.
Speaker C:So, yeah, no matter what I was telling her, it was very hard for her to even understand that concept.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:And I get.
Speaker C:And I get it because, I mean, 12 years sober, back when I was drinking, I couldn't spend 10 minutes without going to get a drink.
Speaker B:So I remember.
Speaker B:And so funny you should say that, too, because I remember when I was first Contemplating Getting sober 20 years ago is when my recovery journey began.
Speaker B:And I would go to 12 step groups in New York City, and I would just kind of put my toe in the water.
Speaker B:I wasn't 100% sober then.
Speaker B:Maybe for that meeting I was, but then I'd go home and drink or whatever, and I just couldn't believe everybody in those rooms was sober.
Speaker B:I was like, there's no way.
Speaker B:They're all going home drinking and using.
Speaker B:And I really, really, really believed that because there was just.
Speaker B:Even though I was raised, ironically, without alcohol or drugs in our home, it was against the religion we were raised in to.
Speaker B:To not drink or even have caffeine, but yet I ended up in this.
Speaker B:This path.
Speaker B:You know, destiny finds you.
Speaker B:And I had my prodigal son journey.
Speaker B:But the idea that people would actually not drink by choice.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:It's just, you can have fun.
Speaker C:I'm like, I have had way more fun sober than I ever had drunk.
Speaker C:Like, you can't even compare.
Speaker C:I said, now, if.
Speaker C:If it were to come down to it, you were to try to pay me to drink, I wouldn't even take it.
Speaker B:Forget it.
Speaker C:I don't want it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, same.
Speaker A:So that kind of keeps people stuck.
Speaker A:They rationalize why they're drinking, and they just look at it as a hopeless battle.
Speaker A:It's like, whatever, I'm just gonna drink that's part of the addictive thinking, isn't.
Speaker B:Is from my understanding, you know it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:How do you.
Speaker B:Until the secret ingredient, people are like, how did you figure it out?
Speaker B:How did you do it?
Speaker B:One to your point, it's like courage is fear that said its prayers kind of mentality.
Speaker B:I had to go against everything I thought I knew, which was really nothing other than drinking and using, and find a group of women who had walked before me.
Speaker B:And when I found a group of women, a group in New York City and I was able to make it to them, every Wednesday night, there was a women's meeting after work at the McGraw Hill building on 6th Avenue and 49th Street.
Speaker B:And I would make it to these group of women and just be in awe.
Speaker B:They were judges and lawyers and business women and movers and shake.
Speaker B:And I was like, how are these really successful women in the same room as me?
Speaker B:Like, that's not even conscionable to me.
Speaker B:But just watching how they moved before me without judgment, without proselytizing, without lecturing, without telling me, well, if I just tried harder, none of that.
Speaker B:And that was the only piece that really, really, my therapist was great.
Speaker B:We love, we love having professional help, but it was, it was, it was those group of women.
Speaker B:Like this, this, this moment with you is so empowering to hear what you're telling me, Kathy.
Speaker B:To listen to you, Shelley.
Speaker A:So it's important to have mentors, would you say?
Speaker A:I mean, these ladies were obviously your mentors.
Speaker A:You stood in awe of what they accomplished, and you were also awestruck by the fact that they didn't judge you.
Speaker C:Mm.
Speaker B:Having a group of women, I think we weren't meant to live this world alone.
Speaker B:And I know that oftentimes people say it, but I'll say it again.
Speaker B:You know, connection is the opposite of addiction.
Speaker B:And it is so important to be connected with like minded people.
Speaker B:And at that, even though these women, to me in a professional realm, were giants above me, they were humbling themselves into a commonality of we were all aligned against something else out there.
Speaker B:And I was able to be a part of that.
Speaker B:And there was no judgment.
Speaker B:And I think that is so important.
Speaker B:I try to approach the people we work with today without any judgment.
Speaker B:And if my story can be helpful, I share it.
Speaker B:And if I don't think it will be, I don't.
Speaker A:You know, it's interesting.
Speaker A:There's still judgment out there, even by medical staff.
Speaker A:If somebody has whatever their addiction is, they come in because they need help.
Speaker A:They need to have Something, some sort of medical intervention because of an opiate addiction or even alcohol, they're not treated well.
Speaker A:They're treated in a very judgmental fashion, which I find today after all these years of reeducation, why is there that judgment out there?
Speaker A:I mean, that keeps people struggling with substance abuse too?
Speaker B:Well, it's shows like yours that help illuminate and cross the quote, unquote layers or boundaries, if there are any, between people who are in the recovery path and those who are curious or those who want to learn more because of a family member.
Speaker B:And you're right, the medical community has a lot of judgment, especially in institutions like hospitals or what have you.
Speaker B:And why that is so much uneducation around it, I don't know.
Speaker B:I think the medical schools have a lot to be learning still.
Speaker B:And so when you think about how we can really be helpful to other people, it is the simple act of not judging what a person's choices, past choices, have led them to where they are kind of like a cancer patient.
Speaker B:While we all know antioxidants, eating well and all these things can be helpful, it's not a hundred percent preventative, but it's like, wait a second, to your point, the cancer patient gets all this royal treatment.
Speaker B:Oh, you poor thing.
Speaker B:Whereas an addict is like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, they, they have to go to rehab.
Speaker B:They chose this.
Speaker B:And I think that's a whole nother show.
Speaker B:Probably we could talk about whether this is a choice or not.
Speaker A:Yeah, our society still labels, you know, they're trying to get away from that, but that's so marginalizing and it just keeps people stuck and there needs to be the compassion and empathy all the way across the board.
Speaker B:I have never met somebody where I've ever been, quote, unquote, successful or had a good conversation or wanted them to learn more about how to help themselves by finding their faults.
Speaker B:That just, it doesn't work with my kids, work in relationships.
Speaker B:You know, shaking my finger at somebody has never, you know, they say you've got a finger pointing, three fingers pointing back at yourself.
Speaker B:And you know, it's just, I have never.
Speaker B:I was, I was talking to an MIT professor one time about the state of affairs in the world, which I will not get into now.
Speaker B:But the point being that in order to understand the adversity, the adversity, the other side, you have to join them first in order to enlighten them to what maybe you have to say.
Speaker B:So I've again, we've never gotten anywhere by telling somebody, even a cancer patient, oh, well, X, Y and Z.
Speaker B:That doesn't actually help them heal in the moment.
Speaker B:It's just information.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.
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Speaker A:Many women face the tough battle of substance abuse, and breaking free from addiction can feel nearly impossible.
Speaker A:Natasha Silver Bell knows this struggle all too well.
Speaker A:Once Ms.
Speaker A:Michigan, USA, a New York City model and a mother of three, she found herself caught in the grip of drug and alcohol addiction.
Speaker A:On top of that, she had a difficult marriage, a rollercoaster career, and ultimately a contentious divorce.
Speaker A:But despite all these hurdles, she found a way to overcome them and carve out a new path for herself.
Speaker A:Natasha learned that courage isn't about being fearless, it's about taking action.
Speaker A:Even when you're scared.
Speaker A:Today, she's a respected expert in substance use disorder and recovery.
Speaker A:She's the founder of Silver Bell Global, an organization that helps people around the world battling substance use, eating disorders, personality disorders and other mental health challenges.
Speaker A:Natasha's journey is nothing short of inspiring.
Speaker A:She's overcome incredible odds and now she's helping our listeners do the same.
Speaker A:So, Natasha, when you're working with people, what was your aha moment where you're like, I have got to stop this drinking.
Speaker A:And how did you start doing what you're doing today?
Speaker A:I mean, it's just the way you pivoted.
Speaker A:It's just amazing.
Speaker B:It really is God's grace.
Speaker B:I will share with you the first aha moment I really ever had.
Speaker B:And I really love this story.
Speaker B:I must have been 23 or 24 and I'm a failing model in New York City.
Speaker B:You know, getting calls and then not being able to show up is what I mean by that.
Speaker B:And for jobs.
Speaker B:And then somehow because I was drinking and using all night long, probably six days a week, I wasn't able to function during the day until I would just get my next hit at 4 o'clock.
Speaker B:I would wake up by 4pm and somehow one of my good girlfriends that I, somehow I'd had her since childhood ended up in New York City modeling too.
Speaker B:And she, she came to my house and she somehow got me to go to a yoga class.
Speaker B:Now mind you, at that time, this is 98, 99, I wasn't an exercise freak.
Speaker B:I wasn't going to exercise classes.
Speaker B:That's not my mo, Let alone yoga.
Speaker B:I'm from the Midwest.
Speaker B:We didn't do yoga in the Midwest in the 80s and 90s.
Speaker B:It just wasn't a thing.
Speaker B:And, and so being in New York City, how she ever was able to convince me to go, let alone in that moment, I was sober before I would start using that evening.
Speaker B:And she at the end of this yoga class, I remember the instructor at the end, what they call his Shavasana.
Speaker B:We were lying down on the mat and the instructor said, now close your eyes and look down into your heart and listen.
Speaker B:Oh, the tears that started rolling out of my eyes.
Speaker B:Just thinking of it now brings me right back to that moment.
Speaker B:It was the first time I probably been using for six years straight.
Speaker B:I had slowed down enough to listen to myself, to listen to that inner, still calm voice that loves me beyond anything I could ever imagine.
Speaker B:Call it your inner child, call it your source, God, conscience.
Speaker B:And I listened and I just cried and what it said to me was, please stop doing this to us.
Speaker B:And I'll never forget it.
Speaker B:It said, this isn't who you are.
Speaker A:That's powerful.
Speaker C:That is.
Speaker C:That is.
Speaker C:That's like I got goosebumps.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was one of those moments where God, I believe, and I do believe in a higher power, and I do believe in the pronoun of him for this purpose.
Speaker B:It's how I identify.
Speaker B:It's how it works for me.
Speaker B:And I respect anyone's belief system.
Speaker B:Truly, truly, truly.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:And for me, when I heard that voice, I knew what it was.
Speaker B:There was no judging because doubt is always a comment.
Speaker B:Oh, you didn't hear God talk to you?
Speaker B:You didn't hear that.
Speaker B:You know, there was none of that.
Speaker B:It was an affirmation of, we need to stop now.
Speaker B:And it, I, I, that was when I began what they call, in the clinical realm, pre contemplation.
Speaker B:And I would start having these ideas in my brain about having only two drinks, not calling my dealer, you know, trying to quietly.
Speaker B:I never told this to anyone.
Speaker B:Trying to control my drinking, trying to control my behaviors, not end up out at a club, not end up alone with, you know, mounds of amphetamines, and I couldn't do it.
Speaker B:And that was internal shame that was being created.
Speaker B:And that rinse and repeat, as you were discussing earlier, how did I end up in that pattern?
Speaker B:Well, the bonds of addiction were.
Speaker B:Were too loose to be felt until they were too tight to be broken, and not until I was pregnant.
Speaker B:And my oldest son, who's 21, Samuel, who's healthy and very well now, God graced me with becoming pregnant at 26.
Speaker B:And that was the only way.
Speaker B:Like we always say, it's like a Boeing 747 in the air.
Speaker B:You can't just stop and jackknife.
Speaker B:You have to slow it down and slowly turn it around.
Speaker B:And that's how I was able to be brought literally to my knees and slow things down and began my recovery journey, which, as you started the show, ended me having to leave the father of my three children and jump off a cliff with them, not knowing what my future would be.
Speaker B:I had no financial real means.
Speaker B:I didn't have another partner waiting for me to make the leap easier.
Speaker B:It was truly blind faith.
Speaker B:And I think that's what I like to call baptism by fire.
Speaker B:Was a way in which I became crystallized into my true self.
Speaker B:I could really see what I was made from and made of.
Speaker B:And I really love the name of your show.
Speaker B:Because I grew up driving with my parents from Michigan to Montana every summer and camping at koas.
Speaker B:And so what I did in New York, because we have a family cattle ranch.
Speaker B:I'm a cowgirl at heart.
Speaker B:We're seventh generation cattle ranch owners.
Speaker A:Oh, cool.
Speaker B:Paradise Valley, Montana.
Speaker B:And I started driving with my kids from New York to Montana every summer.
Speaker B:And now I've moved to Florida.
Speaker B:And I drive from Florida to Mon and back every summer, and there's nothing I look forward to.
Speaker B:My open road, time alone with my animals in the car.
Speaker B:Now my kids are older, they don't want to do it with me, but I will never give up that.
Speaker B:That road warrior mentality and literally be on the open road.
Speaker B:It is so calming.
Speaker B:It's like divided attention at its finest.
Speaker A:Well, when you think of life, it's a road.
Speaker A:And everyone needs to be a warrior going down that road and find that path to success.
Speaker A:Life has a tendency, and people in our lives can send us down a really crazy detour.
Speaker A:Sometimes it's a dead end.
Speaker A:Sometimes it's one of those crazy roundabouts.
Speaker A:You keep going around and around and around and, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Story of my life for a long time.
Speaker C:A few decades, actually.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker A:It's so easy to get sidetracked, and we don't have the proper gps.
Speaker B:Well said.
Speaker B:And there was no GPS back in those days.
Speaker B:You know, what you had to do for me, because I could navigate a map, but I actually like to stop and talk to people and ask directions and that connection.
Speaker B:And then I build memories along the road.
Speaker B:I like to stop at this one gas station.
Speaker B:I like to stop at this one town to spend the night.
Speaker B:I like to keep those connections.
Speaker B:And then I see myself year after year after year, passing through that portal of time yet again.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Whether I'm in Rapid City or Sioux City or Oklahoma City.
Speaker A:So when you made this pivot and you committed to a life of sobriety, did you go back to school?
Speaker A:I mean, obviously you went into something completely different than modeling in New York City.
Speaker B:I certainly did.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Because I come from a family of academics.
Speaker B:My parents first were first college graduates.
Speaker B:My mom has a master's.
Speaker B:My father has a PhD.
Speaker B:My sisters have advanced degrees, many of them.
Speaker B:And I never graduated college.
Speaker B:And so I felt less than significantly.
Speaker B:My learning challenges were, let's just say I understand what I read, but at a pace that is like molasses, because everything means something to me.
Speaker B:Everything matters.
Speaker B:The way a word is written or phrased.
Speaker B:It's like, wait, I need to Marinate on that.
Speaker B:I like quoting one of my favorite authors, Thomas Merton.
Speaker B:Perhaps I'm stronger than I think I am and that has so much meaning in it.
Speaker B:I want to digest that quote forever because everything is so important, I feel.
Speaker B:And so I, I did apply back to NYU and I got into adults returning back to school because I did have two years of college underneath my belt and I had three small children.
Speaker B:I was newly sober and with a five year old, a three year old and a one year old.
Speaker B:That wasn't probably the smartest thing for me to do in a, in a relationship that was also unsupportive.
Speaker B:So I didn't have the ease and safety of home to rest and study and focus on me.
Speaker B:I had to provide for my children that emotional safety and it took everything I could to stay sober and to do that for them.
Speaker B:So I was not able to go back to school and I chose to give that up.
Speaker B:And I'm really glad that I did.
Speaker B:Now I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I was a licensed clinical social worker.
Speaker B:That is not the lane that the road I was meant to be on.
Speaker B:I definitely am a trailblazer.
Speaker B:They've called me a pioneer in Dubai.
Speaker B:I've been bringing this industry there for six years now, working with some of their first treatment centers ever in the Middle East.
Speaker B:What we're doing is pushing the boundaries of what we think we know.
Speaker B:Inpatient is great, it serves a purpose.
Speaker B:Okay, outpatient is okay.
Speaker B:But who's going to help hold those people accountable in that continuum?
Speaker B:And that's where this recovery coaching and mentorship and supportive approach outside of treatment has really gained some momentum because it's highly effective when done, ethical and right.
Speaker A:I love this concept.
Speaker A:Now this is what Silver Bell coaching is all about.
Speaker A:How is this different than the standard, say, conventional treatment?
Speaker A:People go into rehab and then of course they have to find a 12 step program and a sponsor perhaps to keep them on their road to sobriety.
Speaker A:What are you doing that's different?
Speaker B:If, if people are taking to that program and that process, great, I don't want to touch it.
Speaker B:They're not my clientele.
Speaker B:But unfortunately, as we all know, the number one kill in our nation still for people 50 and under is accidental overdose.
Speaker B:And suicide is significantly on the rise every year.
Speaker B:And so something has to shift and change.
Speaker B:And that's where I think, to boil it down, what people would call companies like mine are case management companies that help hold all the multidisciplinary teams together.
Speaker B:And that can be tricky because I don't have, let's say I have clinicians that work within my company, but I'm working with other clinicians that a client will bring with them who has tried rehab three or four times and it's not successful.
Speaker B:I had a client once who had rehab 39 times.
Speaker B:So something's clearly not working right.
Speaker B:That insidiousness of doing something over and over again.
Speaker B:So the system for them is not effective.
Speaker B:I'm not saying it isn't for everyone, for everyone.
Speaker B:This is not a generalized statement.
Speaker B:But with the rise of our addiction in America in particular, and we're seeing this overseas too, you have to look at something different to get a different result.
Speaker B:And really that peer to peer mentor.
Speaker B:What we're doing, Kathy and I are resonating, right?
Speaker B:We're resonating and identifying with each other.
Speaker B:I feel safe.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I feel safe with her already.
Speaker B:I would listen to her more than I would listen to my therapist.
Speaker B:But the win is if my therapist is saying the same content may be delivered from a clinical lens and Kathy's saying the same thing, then I've got nowhere to go but to listen to both of these different arenas.
Speaker B:The non clinical approach and the clinical working together, not afraid of each other, not upset with each other, not, you're not as good as me because there's a lot of that, you know, you're not academically trained.
Speaker B:We have to really remove those blinders and say, what can I learn from this coach?
Speaker B:And the coach needs to say, what can I learn from this seasonedly trained clinician?
Speaker B:And how can we complement each other because we're completely separate and yet so beneficial to each other.
Speaker B:And more and more clinicians are getting on board with it.
Speaker B:So when we find them, we put these multidisciplinary teams together.
Speaker B:And the most important piece of all of this is a quarterback that's the case manager who's anchoring and holding all information around this identified patient and the family together.
Speaker B:So that isn't fractured.
Speaker B:It isn't who's on first and what did she say?
Speaker B:And we're a week late and then someone's back in rehab or someone's back in a relapse, or someone's not alive.
Speaker B:And how do we help hold everybody accountable together as a cohesive team without judgment.
Speaker B:Again, there we are with that.
Speaker B:Let's judge everybody.
Speaker A:I want to commend you.
Speaker A:This is marvelous that you've been able to accomplish this, because the mental health community, just like the medical community, there's a lot of ego there and there's a resistance to change.
Speaker A:So the fact that you've brought a lot of people on board that can do this, that speaks volumes.
Speaker A:It really does.
Speaker B:Well, it's not caring what other people think, to be quite honest.
Speaker B:I know in my heart that's still small voice.
Speaker B:I'm talking to God, I'm journaling, I'm getting clarity because we started 12, almost 13 years ago, and I didn't have time to listen to actually what all the conventions were saying or the clinicians were saying.
Speaker B:I had one forensic psychologist who trained me, Dr.
Speaker B:Marvin Aronson, who's no longer with us anymore in New York City, took me under his wing and he said, you're onto something here.
Speaker B:And he helped put this forensic approach where everybody's talking to everybody, daily notes are taken, of course, with the client, full transparency and unaware.
Speaker B:But we're all working together because he had had 40 years in the industry of watching things not be effective for a lot of people.
Speaker B:For those that it is great.
Speaker B:But what about everyone else in our mental health capacity around this world?
Speaker B:It's on the rise.
Speaker B:People have to be able to be more malleable and flexible and work together.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker B:I don't know how to do it any other way.
Speaker B:I don't think there is another way unless everybody's talking to everybody.
Speaker A:This makes so much sense because we've been stuck in basically a template.
Speaker A:You know, people go into a rehab, it's done the same way all the time, and one size does not fit all.
Speaker C:I was just going to say that because every recovery is different for every single person.
Speaker C:I come from a family that every single one of us was either using or drinking or were all addictive issues.
Speaker C:And my best friend who passed away from a relapse from alcohol after being eight and a half years clean and sober, when she passed away in my house, it was so devastating to me because I had tried to do everything possible with her to get her to see her own light and to acknowledge her own self worth.
Speaker C:And it didn't matter.
Speaker C:We tried all different kinds of therapies and different kinds of, I guess angles would be a good word of trying to look at the problem.
Speaker C:But it really boiled down to how she really felt about herself.
Speaker C:And so her level of trauma and recovery, it was deeper than other people.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And not to mention that she was trafficked sexually since she was 12.
Speaker C:So I mean, every single person has their level where they need to go seek what will help them because what helped me did not help her.
Speaker C:And we were in the same recovery home, right, where we did the same treatment for a whole year together as roommates, side by side, doing the same homework.
Speaker C:But, you know, I, I don't know if you've done this, but I've done.
Speaker C:I did a LED treatment, emdr, I should say, not LV emdr.
Speaker C:And it had it that we.
Speaker C: l clients and this is back in: Speaker C:But apparently it had a 75 success rate.
Speaker C:And I said, you know what?
Speaker C:I got nothing left to lose.
Speaker C:This is the.
Speaker C:I keep relapsing.
Speaker C: 've been trying to quit since: Speaker C:I've lost everything I own.
Speaker C:I mean, my daughter wasn't talking to me and she, you know, just all these things I said, you want me to do backflip?
Speaker C:Anything you need me to do, I'm gonna try it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:Because I couldn't figure out why I kept relapsing.
Speaker C:And this EMDR treatment, well, it really worked for me.
Speaker C:It just unlocked a bunch of thought patterns that I didn't realize were holding me back.
Speaker C:But in the same breath that.
Speaker C:That same EMDR treatment that was available to my friend, she refused to take it.
Speaker C:And I'm not saying that was the catalyst of whether.
Speaker C:Why she relapsed eight and a half years later, because she had, she had a great eight and a half years clean.
Speaker C:But I'm just saying that for me, that was my trick, that I, I fully know the moment where I actually felt in my brain something flipped like a switch.
Speaker C:And I, I understood where my unworthiness, that, that feeling of unworthiness came.
Speaker C:And then once I understood how worthy I am, in that same breath, that same moment, it changed everything for me because it just did.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But, and, but how do you give that to somebody else?
Speaker C:Sure you can't.
Speaker B:Well, yes and no.
Speaker B:I'm going to share with you.
Speaker B:People say a lot in the rooms or out in the recovery world.
Speaker B:You can't help someone who's not willing.
Speaker B:And I say bs.
Speaker B:We create willingness all the time.
Speaker B:And that's kind of what we do at Silverbell.
Speaker B:We get called for pre intervention.
Speaker B:Intervention can be life saving if it's really a 911 situation.
Speaker B:But we do slow intervening where we get the family members involved, those quote unquote stakeholders that are calling Us to begin with.
Speaker B:I've never had an intervention person call me that wants an intervention on themselves, you know, so we work with the family members and, and once we get them to a place where they're ready to help hold the boundaries, we're going to help create that opening of grace we call it, so that loved one can take that, that lifeline into treatment or to our model or what have you.
Speaker B:Now, to answer your question though, yes, I did emdr and it was highly effective for me at the right time with the right therapist.
Speaker B:And it sounds like both, which is a win.
Speaker B:That's like a bullseye.
Speaker B:We don't always get those opportunities.
Speaker B:People aren't sound enough or ready enough to do the treatment with a person that makes them feel safe because safety for your nervous system.
Speaker B:All our coaches are trained in the Polyvagal theory by Deb Danna.
Speaker B:She was a co founder of the Polyvagal Institute, which is the science behind our nervous system.
Speaker B:That was common sense for us as women.
Speaker B:It's a gut check.
Speaker B:It's a funny feeling.
Speaker B:It's a spidey sense.
Speaker B:I don't like the way that feels.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We all have this language for centuries.
Speaker B: But not until: Speaker B:And then Deb was the one who helped execute it into the therapeutic environment to help regulate nervous system.
Speaker B:With the nervous system, kind of like what I think we're all doing right now, I feel really safe and comfortable.
Speaker B:My nervous system is very regulated.
Speaker B:Talking to you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I've also done the work.
Speaker B:I'm not just a year sober, even 30 days sober.
Speaker B:I wouldn't have been ready to have that conversation to talk about my nervous system, talk about my past memories, which is what EMDR helps you recreate and move through in a safe way.
Speaker B:Until I had the right environment to do that in.
Speaker B:And that's kind of where our company comes in.
Speaker B:We help get them into a place of stabilization and then we help move them into doing that underlying work that you're discussing.
Speaker B:Sexual grief is a real arena these days.
Speaker B:There's a really great therapist in Florida, Edie.
Speaker B:I forget her last name.
Speaker B:But she specifically helps women move through sexual grief.
Speaker A:Now, what is that?
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's like having a lot of sexual trauma as a child, being sex trafficked, things of those nature.
Speaker B:And so we're getting more and more of that as we unfortunately all know what's happening in the world.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So these, these underlying issues that you just talked about.
Speaker B:With your friend were so big and so overwhelming.
Speaker B:She had eight years, but in that eight years, was she able to find a therapeutic, trauma trained and responsive therapist who's trained in EMDR or any other modalities, brain spotting and what have you to help move her into a pace of recovery from those traumas that is sustainable so that she doesn't regress.
Speaker B:And that's where having better clinicians out there that are more sensitive to what's going on.
Speaker B:Like you guys even said the old model isn't.
Speaker B:CBT is great.
Speaker B:Cognitive behavioral therapy is good, but it's not, it's not the only modality out there to help treat these people who have these underlying traumatic events.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Stay tuned for more of Women Road warriors coming up.
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Speaker A:Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome back to Women Road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
Speaker A:The number one killer of people under 50 is accidental overdose.
Speaker A:That's a sobering statistic that demands change to provide a system to fight addiction that works for more people.
Speaker A:When Natasha Silver Bell got sober, it was a process.
Speaker A:It was a strong period of self reflection and learning to understand herself and how to break the bonds of addiction.
Speaker A:It wasn't until her pregnancy at 26 that she took a different track.
Speaker A:She began her recovery journey that wasn't without significant challenges, which included a contentious divorce and venturing out on her own.
Speaker A:She became crystallized into her true self.
Speaker A:She was able to turn her life around and those of others.
Speaker A:Today, Natasha is a highly regarded expert in substance use disorder and recovery with recovery coaching and mentorship she's on the board of the National Council of Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and serves as an ambassador for Partnership to End Addiction.
Speaker A:She owns Silverbell Global, which helps people internationally.
Speaker A:Her organization counsels people with substance use disorders, eating disorders, personality disorders and other mental health issues.
Speaker A:Natasha is also the co founder of Youth Prevention Mentors that empowers young adults through mentorship and risk mitigation, as well as the Townhouse, a residence in New York City that offers bespoke treatment programs tailored to the individual.
Speaker A:Natasha sharing some terrific insight with us, giving our listeners clarity with a revolutionary approach to addiction.
Speaker A:Natasha, like you said before our last break, finding the right clinician to help people with underlying traumatic events is so important to break the addiction cycle.
Speaker A:It really makes sense for any kind of addiction.
Speaker A:And I see that your organization helps with all kinds of use disorders, eating, drinking, drugs, whatever it is.
Speaker A:Finding the underlying reason, there's a reason why we're stuffing it.
Speaker A:We are going to an external source to feel better about ourselves and maybe to numb our pain.
Speaker A:And if you don't address that, you're just basically putting what, a lousy coat of paint over something and hoping it's going to stick, right?
Speaker B:Well, yes.
Speaker B:And to your point before about how do we know if we're just self doing this habit out of habit?
Speaker B:Maybe we know.
Speaker B:But guess what?
Speaker B:To do the underlying work.
Speaker B:You know, I have sexual trauma.
Speaker B:I didn't want to talk about it when I was first sober, you know, and in rehab in 30, 60, 90 days.
Speaker B:They expect you to be doing your underlying work that quickly?
Speaker B:Well, if someone is sound enough to do their work like that within the first, you know, round of treatment, God bless them.
Speaker B:But I needed years of stabilization is with a sober mind in order to even approach.
Speaker B:And that's what Deb talks about, readiness, you know, and creating the willingness.
Speaker B:The only way you're going to do that is through creating a safe relationship with someone.
Speaker B:And that's where someone like a Kathy could be a great asset.
Speaker B:But she just wasn't ready.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The 30 day model of recovery and rehab and so forth, that's probably dictated a lot by the insurance companies that want you in and out.
Speaker A:Let's have a miracle, right?
Speaker A:And just like physical therapy, that has been a struggle.
Speaker A:When people need that, insurance companies will say, well, you can have all your physical therapy in the next, you know, six weeks, which should be spaced over the course of a year.
Speaker A:So you're actually doing more damage in many cases by doing this massive cram session.
Speaker A:I mean, people don't process that way.
Speaker A:We don't do that in our educational system.
Speaker A:With little ones, it takes years for them to learn certain things.
Speaker A:You know, it does.
Speaker C:Like I, like I took me a total of two years in that women's center.
Speaker C:I went nine months the first time, I went four months the second time.
Speaker C:And then I re.
Speaker C:I relapsed again and then I went back for the third time.
Speaker C:That way I spent the whole year.
Speaker C:But what I, what I noticed because I really thought the first time when I went the nine months that I had given it my all.
Speaker C:I mean, and I did, I worked really, really hard, but I didn't realize that there's so many layers to trauma.
Speaker C:I mean, I did a 12 week sexual assault recovery group the first time and I thought I got it all right.
Speaker C:And so the second time around or the third time when I went back, they asked me to do again.
Speaker C:I said, well, I already did it.
Speaker C:And she said, no, I think there's more for you to uncover.
Speaker B:And she was right.
Speaker C:I did this really thick book.
Speaker C:The book's about like about an inch thick.
Speaker C:And I redid it with different counselors and I uncovered memories that I had completely blocked out the first time.
Speaker C:And you can only, I think the mind almost purposely blocks it out until you're ready to, to look at it.
Speaker C:And so I had to chip away, chip away, chip away.
Speaker C:And it certainly didn't happen overnight because, I mean, my God, there's so much that happened to me that it's, it's very traumatic and it's just, it takes time to heal.
Speaker C:And that's like anything even like it, like my, my broken finger that I broke three weeks ago.
Speaker C:It takes time to heal.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, Natasha, can people reach out to you?
Speaker A:Obviously, I know we're going to have listeners that want to, they're hearing what you're saying.
Speaker A:It makes so much sense and they're looking for that extra avenue.
Speaker A:They're just, you know, when you're going through this kind of recovery, you're trying to make a change.
Speaker A:You're just grasping for something you can hang onto that makes sense, that keeps you on that track.
Speaker B:Well said.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:There's layers and layers to recovery and layers and layers to solution.
Speaker B:And so yes, of course they can email us on our inquiry at SilverbellGlobal.
Speaker B:We actually did a rebranding last year because our company's global now.
Speaker B:And so coaching turned into global, but I started a foundation because that company is for profit.
Speaker B:But I just thought, I want to be as more and more help to more and more people as much as possible.
Speaker B:So we created a board.
Speaker B:Some alumni of our program did that.
Speaker B:And so it's called In Service foundation.
Speaker B:And they can certainly apply there as well if resources are limited.
Speaker B:Limited.
Speaker B:And there are some great online resources.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:I know it can be so hard to navigate.
Speaker B:What's a safe.
Speaker B:What's a safe, you know, place to.
Speaker B:To go and get those resources?
Speaker B:So they're like the organizations I'm a part of, the National Council on Alcohol and Substance Abuse, the one that you just spoke at.
Speaker B:Kathy.
Speaker B:I think down in Dallas, there's some really great resources.
Speaker B:Partnership to End Addiction is a really great resource.
Speaker B:They have a lot of online programs and free programs.
Speaker B:But yeah, keep seeking, keep asking, and the answers will find you.
Speaker A:So there are resources to people who may not have insurance.
Speaker A:That's very good because I think that's always a barrier too.
Speaker B:It is, it is.
Speaker B:And yes, I'm with you on the insurance model.
Speaker B:It is really frustrating and very challenging.
Speaker B:That's why these foundations are so beneficial.
Speaker A:And I love what you're doing.
Speaker A:You're a champion for people.
Speaker A:This is so needed.
Speaker A:And when people are caught in the throes of addiction and certain addictions are worse than others, opiate is just a terrible one.
Speaker A:They need something that can keep them on track because their body's saying something completely different.
Speaker A:And their mind and the habits, the things that they've gotten locked into.
Speaker B:You know what I would like to share really quickly, I know we're closing in on time is my daughter is 17 and I was going through a depressing moment recently and she even said to me, mom, you seem a little down.
Speaker B:And for my 17 year old to even acknowledge I have feelings as new.
Speaker B:But she, she has her moments of being a human being.
Speaker B:God bless the teenage girl, which I was one.
Speaker B:And she sent me this app.
Speaker B:And this is the sweetest app that I connect with her on.
Speaker B:And, and it's a mental health app for kids and it's called Finch.
Speaker B:And it's this little bird that you.
Speaker B:That checks in on you.
Speaker B:And you have daily goals of brushing your teeth and getting out of bed or putting a warm towel around your shoulders or reaching out to a friend.
Speaker B:And then at the end of the day it checks in with you.
Speaker B:And there are other chirp friends.
Speaker B:These, these Finch friends you can become friends with.
Speaker B:And it is so well thought out.
Speaker B:And you know, there are a lot of great tools out there that we have access to that are free.
Speaker B:So if anybody's interested and doesn't have the resources.
Speaker B:Try the Finch app, and there's some beautiful connections on there.
Speaker A:So, Natasha, do you have some nuggets maybe, that listeners can take away?
Speaker A:We like to have little takeaways if they're struggling with any kind of addiction.
Speaker A:What are some thoughts that you have?
Speaker B:Oh, I have a thank you for asking this question.
Speaker B:So when I was ready to really start putting things down, but I didn't know it yet, I had pushed all my real friends away because they would actually care about me and challenge me and ask me how I really was and not hang up until I told them.
Speaker B:And I couldn't just get away with saying, I'm fine.
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:They would say, how are you really?
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:And it was so annoying.
Speaker B:And one day, one of my good friends that I had pushed away somehow got through to me again.
Speaker B:This is 16 years ago when I really decided to get sober, and she somehow got me on the phone, and I was telling her how great my life was.
Speaker B:You know, I had this house in the Hamptons.
Speaker B:I've got my kids.
Speaker B:I've got my cars.
Speaker B:Everything's just fine.
Speaker B:Like, leave me alone.
Speaker B:And she said, okay, Natasha, just don't lie to yourself.
Speaker B:And, ooh.
Speaker B:I wanted to just punch her through the phone, but of course, I just said, thank you.
Speaker B:And that really landed on my nervous system.
Speaker B:I could hear the message.
Speaker B:And my point with the nugget here is make that phone call to that friend you know is going to really care about how you're doing.
Speaker A:Well said.
Speaker A:We may not always like the message.
Speaker B:But it's gonna help.
Speaker A:Sure, you want to shoot the messenger sometimes.
Speaker B:You should.
Speaker C:Sure do.
Speaker A:But, you know, when people have time to step back, they realize this person cares about me.
Speaker A:And that's a lot of it, too.
Speaker A:We need to know that people give a damn, you know, that's it.
Speaker B:And she did.
Speaker B:And she didn't care if I hated her.
Speaker B:I knew she had her motives in the right place.
Speaker B:And darn it, like that, I liked.
Speaker B:I like to hide from all those true, caring people.
Speaker B:When you're in your addiction, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Easy to want to just, you know, cloister yourself and push people away.
Speaker A:And that's part of the behavior, too.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:So that's my nugget, is to make that phone call to that one person that you know will really care about how you're doing.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Natasha, where do people reach your organization again?
Speaker B:Your inquiry I n q U E R Y inquiry at silverbell Global.
Speaker B:But there is a website inquiry that people can message us there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And people can go to silverbellglobal.com for any kind of research.
Speaker A:They can go up to your website and see what you folks do and all of that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:There's a media page with other podcasts or articles I've written.
Speaker B:And our most recent article, I'm a guest writer in a luxury magazine quarterly.
Speaker B:We're talking about veins of gold and why gold is such a precious metal.
Speaker B:And it's because it's malleable and flexible.
Speaker B:And that's why, when we think about how precious we are, is that we want to be as malleable and flexible as gold.
Speaker A:Oh, I love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because when you think about it, if we aren't malleable and flexible, we'll break.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:You don't want to be rigid.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And what's interesting about what makes gold so precious, besides that, is that it actually has to be bonded with something like silver or platinum in order to give it the strength.
Speaker B:And that means having silver like a silver lining, or having a combination of connection makes you stronger.
Speaker A:Human connection.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Natasha, this has been a powerful interview.
Speaker A:I know we've just kind of scratched the.
Speaker A:The surface of everything, but what wonderful perspectives you have.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you for shedding the light on this and doing what you do.
Speaker B:Your voice is so soothing and comforting and Kathy, wow.
Speaker B:Just wow.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker C:I'm going to say that about you.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely, Natasha.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Ladies, thank you for doing this.
Speaker B:And definitely keep.
Speaker B:Keep going.
Speaker B:Don't stop.
Speaker B:Please don't stop.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:It's been an honor having you on the show, Natasha.
Speaker A:And definitely keep going in the direction you're going.
Speaker A:You're just.
Speaker A:You're moving mountains.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I really appreciate the time.
Speaker A:We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode.
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Speaker A:You've been listening to Women Road warriors with Shell Johnson and Kathy Takaro.
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